Oh no not another British Sprints format thread

[NeilC]

Would an M50 also be entered into the M45, M40 and M35 finals? Or is the choice only between actual age class and elite?

[Scott]

Presumably only between the age-class you chose when you entered and Elite, which makes more sense when you think of the "Elite" as what most other sports would call the "Open" championships.

[graeme]

This year the 21 35 40 A-finals were the same anyway, and I can't see any good reason why that shouldn't always be the case.

I think any of us 35s who managed to run the fastest on the qualifying course, and the fastest on the final course should be the champion.

*dodgy foreigners aside, of course

[EddieH]

Or people could be given the option of choosing their final when entering should the situation arise that they qualify for the elite final. Not naming a choice would have a default - it matters not which so long as it is published before entry.

[NeilC]

I am really looking forward to reading this proposal

[graeme]

What's being suggested doesn't seem that complicated.

You have the same courses that you actually had.
The fastest 6 in the A-heats go to the elite final.
Once you've done that, the fastest (x) in each age group go to their final.
The fastest person in each age group in the final wins (e.g. srollins W35).

(added bonus - you can have 18 and 20 age groups too)

n.b. I prefer separate Open and age-group, with two races to count in age-group where you don't need qualifiers.

[Arnold]

How about something completely different:

- You go back to the one-class-only Sprints we used to have with A-E finals
- You give out British Age Class Sprint medals at the JK Sprint. It's normally a bigger event than the British Sprints so arguably they're "truer" champions anyway?

While I'm on the JK whatever happened to the idea of a Middle race for everyone on Day 2? Seems a bit weird that Elite has Sprint-Middle-Long-Relay and everyone else Sprint-Long-Long-Relay. Would also make selecting a Day 2 area a lot simpler (and mean you could use much smaller areas). For a different thread perhaps?

[awk]

How about something completely different:

- You go back to the one-class-only Sprints we used to have with A-E finals
- You give out British Age Class Sprint medals at the JK Sprint. It's normally a bigger event than the British Sprints so arguably they're "truer" champions anyway?

Aside from separate Age class and Open championships, this is the best solution I've seen so far, even if currently lacking heats/finals structure (which does add to the enjoyment, at least for me).

While I'm on the JK whatever happened to the idea of a Middle race for everyone on Day 2?

Drowned under a sea of 'value for money' (a good proportion of whom run short anyway). I'd absolutely love to see this happen - a real festival of orienteering with all the main formats available!! - but don't expect to see it happen soon.

[graeme]

on the JK whatever happened to the idea of a Middle race for everyone on Day 2?

Sensibly, they decided not to monkey around with a very successful format.
You don't have to wreck something else to put on a good event.

So if you fancy top-class sprint, relay, medium and long, then you'll want this... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11624

[awk]

on the JK whatever happened to the idea of a Middle race for everyone on Day 2?

Sensibly, they decided not to monkey around with a very successful format.
You don't have to wreck something else to put on a good event.

Previous formats were deemed successful too. Changes didn't wreck them then.....

But I accept I'm in a minority, which is why I don't expect to see any changes soon, and am prepared to accept that, even if would love to see them. (It's a pity that those who forced the sprint changes through didn't check to see if they were in a minority or majority either).

[JK]

Graeme suggested "Sensibly, they decided not to monkey around with a very successful format.". Well the JK had more competitors in days gone by didn't it; if I remember correctly the format used to be Training/Long/Chasing Long/Relay for all classes - and that was changed.

My personal view is that a Medium style for all is a good idea for one of the days, but then again I am doing 2x Short courses (which are short Long not Medium - there is a difference in course style) to keep me "fresh" for the Trail-O, so I don't get a vote!

JK

[graeme]

Well the JK had more competitors in days gone by didn't it;Training/Long/Chasing Long/Relay for all classes

Yes, I like chase formats too. But lots of people didn't, it was a pain for the organisers, families and anyone who had travel constraints and numbers continued to rise after it was changed. As for the "Training", that was always a waste of time, and numbers at the JK on Good Friday shot up.
When the sprint went in, there were loads of event in springing in up urban areas with a 15min winning time. It's up to you "middle" fans to show there's a market for running 30 minutes in terrain* - I'm not seeing it.

* By which I don't mean taking 55mins on a green course which you've called "brown" to protect your ego.

[EddieH]

2 things. The JK used to be just 1 day and a relay. 1980 saw this change to 2 days as it has been ever since. On just 1 occasion on Cannock Chase the relays was on the Sunday and Monday had a chasing start.

Regarding AWK's last post I read it as assuming that the majority do not want the change made this year. Whilst there is a clear louder voice on Nopesport for the old elite sprints it is far from clear to me which system is more popular. The numbers at this year's event suggest that it might be the new format. It is very difficult to actually find out and we hardly want an AGM vote on every competition format.

[DJM]

Arnold wrote:
on the JK whatever happened to the idea of a Middle race for everyone on Day 2?

Sensibly, they decided not to monkey around with a very successful format.
You don't have to wreck something else to put on a good event.

We did a survey following the 2008 JK, one of the questions being

We should consider changing the JK programme so that all competitors have the same options as the Elite, i.e. Friday is a Sprint day, Saturday provides a Middle race and Sunday provides the Long race. The Relay remains on Easter Monday.

The replies were as follows (there was a 49% response rate to the survey overall):

78 Strongly agree
208 Agree
187 Neutral
171 Disagree
109 Strongly disagree

So, 286 were for and 280 were against - not really strong enough support for a change. Maybe views have changed since then ...

[Arnold]

I think it would be worth redoing that survey this year or next.

More people now understand that Middle isn't just a shorter version of Long, but actually a different discipline (if planned well and on the right terrain). Just like the Sprints attendance has really taken off.

Plus you would then make the Long a bit longer so overall you wouldn't "lose" that much running time.