Compass Sport Cup Fees

[bedders]

Ah sorry Dave, this little thing called the start of term and a lack of time to drive. Yes, Tom asked if he could at the start, and there they were much more helpful. A large free start block and spare maps = one happy Tom.

I think LostAgain has everything right. MDOC is by no means a poor club, and helps out its members accordingly. In fact juniors don't pay at all to be entered into relays, which is exceptionally helpful. This is why it isn't my 'old' club, and won't be until I actually move away from Manchester properly. As a club, they really do help you out. Clubs that are financially healthy should ALL do this.

[DM]

EBOR make you pay for everything.
HALO pay for CSC runs
When I was in MDOC there was a annual fee to the relay pot, if you ran 2 or more relays then you were subsidised

Do AIRE pay for relay entries?

Lost Again, there seems to be a simple solution here, come back to MDOC as the relay scheme still exists as you recall it. I've no doubt you would all be welcome.

Bedders, sorry if I upset you regarding the Old club comment, can I put you down for the relay scheme at the British, Scottish and the JK now?

[SYO Member]

This is one of the few threads that includes 2 of the themes that to me always seem unnecessary. Those who feel they are being ripped off by an o-club, and those who indulge in 'BOF' bashing.

Of the latter, it usually seems that the posters in question have a personal axe to grind from some perceived slight that may have occurred years ago but which they never share with us.

On the main topic of CSC fees, firstly to answer Seabird, my club did pay my entry fee on Sunday, but I would be making the same remarks if that wasn't the case and the only rip-off relates not to the £7 cost of entry but the cost of petrol in travelling to the event, which for some of my SYO colleagues involved a round trip of over 250 miles.

Why have a go at NN, who put on a great event, when you don't know all the facts? We didn't have to put £3 in the Pay and Display machine, NN used the Forestry Commision building for EOD and download and we were all able to use the permanent toilets which had no queues. The cost of all this must have accounted for the extra £1 or so in entry fees for what was after all a Level 3 event with its associated levy, and which used a newly extended map. Perhaps NN also had to pay to use the o-area which was wholly moorland.

It was made quite clear in the details that CSC courses were pre-entry by club only and so there was no need to mention a non-BOF £9, as CSC runners must have been full or local BOF members.

It was decent of NN to put on an almost full set of EOD CC courses, including Blue, and as you would expect, it attracted mainly students, independents, and those not eligible for CSC. For anyone excluded who wanted to run CSC Brown, the sensible way would have been to go to the Start at the end, check there were spare maps, politely ask to switch courses, and sort out the SI at download which is presumably what Tom did. And if NN generously charge only £4 for CC, then that's their prerogative.

Seniors don't go to a CSC event when eligible and run a CC, even if the CSC course is not their normal one. There's no point, especially when it is so far away. You run the correct course to be part of your club's team even if like me, you don't often score points.

When I got to the finish, I met the controller and thanked him for a very enjoyable course on an interesting area and the thought of me or my club being ripped off couldn't have been further from my mind.

I hope nobody from NN feels the need to post on here to defend the alleged rip-off entry fee because there is absolutely nothing relating to the event that needs an apology.

[seabird]

Do AIRE pay for relay entries?

We have subsidised UKRL Teams, PP and YBT Teams, and 50 % Harvester Entries. Everyone else pays with Juniors/students always paying the Junior fee whatever course they run. (JK and BRC).

[RJ]

.........there is absolutely nothing relating to the event that needs an apology.

Well said..... thank you for that posting!

[greywolf]

SYO Member.

Go to http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/e ... devent.php . Read "The senior/adult fees published in this list are the full fees. British Orienteering National senior/adult member's fees will be discounted by £2.00...." Do you see anything that says "the first 7 events on this list are exempt from this rule"?

Different clubs hosting CSC rounds had different entry methods (e.g BAOC was online) and arrangements etc for non-CSC competitors, and of course these clubs are free to set whatever fee levels they want - but this means there certainly is a need to consider full fee / discount

I'm sure that NN put on a great event, and i don't particularly think that £7 (after discount) is rip-off, entry fees always seem very reasonable to me. The cost of getting to the event almost always outweighs the entry. A round trip of 250 miles? ... you don't know you're born

[SJC]

Two different topics appear in this thread:

1) Club XX pays all it members entry fees for CSC, Relays, etc.

But it has to raise the money (which must run into many hundreds of pounds) from somewhere. So this must be related to:

2) The ever rising prices for events.

This makes me think that anyone from a club which doesn't pay all its members' entry fees is subsiding competitors from the clubs that do.
Is this fair ?

[seabird]

I haven't noticed the clubs we are told do not finance their teams charging lower entry fees, and hence subsidising the clubs that do finance their teams.

Each club can choose what it does with it's money.

The main choices seem to be between development, purchase of equipment, developing team ethos, all perfectly reasonable objectives.

As for ever increasing event fees. My club have not increased C4 event fees in at least 5 years (C3 seems to be subject to the same inflationary spriral as other clubs - not quite sure why). Informals have remained at £1 seniors/50p juniors. In that time we have moved to waterproof pre-printed maps for all events, i.e. increased expense.

The key to generating good finances is to get people running, i.e. good turnout. Low entry fees assist. By attracting runners from other clubs to your event of course they contribute to the host clubs finances and hence the choices that club can make about how they spend their money.

(Just to add to SYO Members comments the NN entry fee never gave us any cause for concern. Must confess though I have to do a double take when I look at the JK fees. I'm sure they can be justified but as an adopted Yorkshireman they sure take my breath away.)

[SeanC]

SJC - that comment should stir up the debate.

The way I see it there are two possible viewpoints.

1. If a club is good enough to go through the pain of organising an event they should be rewarded with a healthy profit. And since they made the effort they should be free so spend it how they please and none of our business (development, mapping, subsidising events, crates of lager). Market forces will dictate what they can charge, we are free to take our business elsewhere.

2. Clubs are non profit making voluntary organisations and therefore morally obliged to spend the money appropriately.

I veer more towards viewpoint 1, but I would consider subsidising occasional prestigious events (ie the CSC) and relays as normal and appropriate behaviour for a sports club.

AIRE are an expanding and successful club, and CSC, relays etc are great for club spirit. Maybe we should all be following AIRE's example?

[LostOldTimer]

If AIRE, and numerous other clubs can pay for their members to compete in Compass Sport Cup Matches, and Relay events then it follows that most/all clubs could pay for their members to compete, or at least subside entries. Some clubs also organise and subsidise transport - minibus, or coach to the events especially if a long-distnace away.
With the rising fuel costs, therefore higher costs to these events that are often further away, then this makes much more sense.
Regarding the CompassSport Cup - essentially, members are wholly only running for their Club, not for themselves - the majority would probaably not be going to the event if it wasnt for the CSC, so as they are running for the club, the club should pay. Many more members would also be prepared to travel and compete if their club paid the (expensive) entry fee. And despite some comments made, most clubs can afford it.

Although its a separate subject: NN csc event fees (Senior £7, junior £2) - there seem to be a very large difference between senior and junior event fees at all events (and it isnt justifiable to say it is 'cheap' for juniors to encourage more to take part (as it isnt usually the juniors who pay anyway) - it seems Seniors are subsidising juniors to enter... and this follows similar differences in BOF and Club membership fees - but thisis another subject. (And it isnt necessarily good value compared to other sports).

And then theres the JK... £15 per day or £46.50 for 4 days... or £63.00!!!! after 7th March; Much dearer than a few years ago, and almost extortionate, not at all comparable with other International events elsewhere in Europe... these fees certainly dont encourage members to want to compete, especially with the increase in travelling costs - although being in the South East, where the majority of memebrs live, and receive extra income anyway. No wonder many people will be travelling elswhere in Europe again this year.

[NeilC]

No wonder many people will be travelling elswhere in Europe again this year.

Please tell us that you will be one of them.

[awk]

IAlthough its a separate subject: NN csc event fees (Senior £7, junior £2) - there seem to be a very large difference between senior and junior event fees at all events (and it isnt justifiable to say it is 'cheap' for juniors to encourage more to take part (as it isnt usually the juniors who pay anyway) - it seems Seniors are subsidising juniors to enter... and this follows similar differences in BOF and Club membership fees - but thisis another subject. (And it isnt necessarily good value compared to other sports).

Yes, of course there is subsidisation going on. However, there are a couple of other ways of looking at this as well:

1) Most juniors are family members. Their subsidy is almost certainly being paid by their parents. The non-family juniors are almost certainly marginal costs; their numbers are small enough at events, that to raise their fees would only put them off, whilst not providing any significant discount to non-family seniors. So all you would do by rebalancing fees is put juniors off, without doing anything positive.

2) Young people are the future of the sport. We need to invest. Those juniors who stay in the sport will more than repay the money in their own voluntary input, entry fees as seniors (they are only probably active juniors for about 10 years - I've been a senior competitor now for almost 30!), and recruitment of new members.

Without cheap junior fees I suspect that the sport would be vastly more expensive than it is now.

On the payment of relay/team entries etc., one little caveat: Aire (and other clubs) is fortunate to be in a position where for a number of reasons, it attracts a good number of participants, thus leading to healthy surpluses. Not all clubs are in that position. Having said that, it is also not afraid to spend money - when I was working for BOF, I was staggered at the size of some of the reserves clubs felt they had to operate with. Having said that, hopefully the advent of print on demand, rather than clubs having to carry large stocks of paper maps, will help clubs to operate at a lower reserve level.

And then theres the JK... £15 per day or £46.50 for 4 days... or £63.00!!!! after 7th March; Much dearer than a few years ago, and almost extortionate, not at all comparable with other International events elsewhere in Europe

Certainly there are cheaper events in Europe, but we are paying £15.50 to enter the Spring Cup, have paid £15.50 per day for the cheapest O-ringen entries (now at £17 per day), and looked at the Aveyron 5-days at £11.20 per day and Sorlandsgaloppen at £13 per day, so reckon that the £11.60 per day we're paying for the JK IS comparable.

especially with the increase in travelling costs - although being in the South East, where the majority of memebrs live, and receive extra income anyway. No wonder many people will be travelling elswhere in Europe again this year.

Well....if it's the travel costs that are such an issue, then people aren't going to travel across Europe are they? I suspect that other factors come into play, like doing something else for a change.

[distracted]

If you wanted to be controversial in that posting lostagain, then I think you've achieved your aim...

In response I'll simply say "Stop moaning about entry fees!" If you don't think you're getting your value for money, why not go and enter a triathlon! I've seen one advertised at £46 - I'm sure I've seen a figure close to that quoted recently for something else - or you could do the "sprint" event for £36. Selling points include "chip timing" amongst others. Sounds fantastic, wouldn't you agree?

[greywolf]

(And it isnt necessarily good value compared to other sports). ... And then theres the JK... £15 per day or £46.50 for 4 days.

Most O events, even the JK, seem pretty good value to me. Which other sports are you thinking of? Distracted has already mentioned the cost of triathlons. My local road running club puts on low key 10k races for £6 / £8 unaffiliated - but the Balmoral 10k & the Inverness Half marathon are £17 / £19, Lochaber Marathon is £23 / £25 and the Great North Run is £40...

[Adventure Racer]

(And it isnt necessarily good value compared to other sports)

Was discussing just this point with a clubmate on the way back from the CSC match strangely enough. He competes in triathlons, whilst I obviously also take part in various other sports. I'm in the fortunate position of not paying adventure race entry fees largely (when I do it's generally for a big long event, where the fee is more than the cost of a ski holiday!), but these are hardly cheap - for example Rat Races are £99 a person. For what you get, those are at least good value compared to triathlon, where you can pay £50 for a 2 hour event. I commented that I actually find most other sports expensive now I am used to orienteering entry fees - even the JK isn't bad value for what it is.