Waterproof maps at the National..

[SIman]

Tyvek melts inside laser printers (I know from experience) and can only be used with traditional printing methods. No use for the sort of numbers we get at events.

[Tatty]

When Tyvek was used in the past, in the UK, there was problem with the green ink adhering to the paper, and also print being rubbed off when the maps were folded. Paul Kanssen, the original Omap printer tried for a couple of years, but then gave up.

[RJ]

The pretex paper comes in different weights. It is important to choose a heavier grade.... more expensive, but will remain rigid more readily. I suspect folk are buying the lightest grade because of cost.

It will become very messy if we have to turn up with a bag of our own at the start to use with the maps. And.... I wouldn't use anything but a brand new bag. The transparency becomes poorer the more times the bag is used.

We have tried the paper a couple of times over the last two years and personally I have always had problems with mud and blood!

Ordinary 150gsm paper and 500g bag gives a great product.... the map folds well and is rigid and stable when running.

[T5]

It will become very messy if we have to turn up with a bag of our own at the start to use with the maps

There's nothing wrong with bringing your own bag - we all managed for years at winter colour coded events. If you forgot your bag, you ended up with a soggy map - that will no longer be an issue. Back then everyone saved the best bags from badge events in a range of sizes and stuck a few in their O box.

If we want to be more environmental, and have lower fees, what better way than reusing bags and not having clubs pay for hundreds of bags per year?

[RJ]

T5..... the map unit is the most important part of the sport.... you can't do anything without it. It is a mistake to degrade the product. By all means be environmentally friendly... recycle your map bags.... but use them elsewhere for something else. I use my A4 bags for filing papers.

It might appear to be environmentally sound to arrive at the start with a bag in your hand. It makes the sport look shoddy and secondhand. Why have we spent thousands of pounds on electronic gear improving our image just to have a shoddy map setup. Give the punters a quality map unit and allow them to orienteer without a hassle.

Collect all the old bags and send them for recycling.

[Gnitworp]

I use my A4 bags for filing papers.

I do likewise (you can see what's in them at a glance without a label) using larger bags as well

I never throw any bag away (except the ridiculously flimsy ones) and also use them for bagging all the maps at low key events.

[PeteL]

[quote="RJ"]It makes the sport look shoddy and secondhand. [quote]

Wohh!! I've read a few dodgy lines of reasoning on nopesport before but it's the first time the shoddy-police have reared their head! Will I be refused entry at WCOC's next event if I turn up with a faded old t-shirt and ripped lycras because I make the sport look shoddy?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that trying out pretex maps is motivated by financial or environmental reasons, they are purely by-products of the process. Of course, the map is the key tool of our sport and punters will soon let organisers know if they aren't happy with the product. Let's reserve final judgement until we've all had a few goes at using pretex maps and see if the benefits outweigh the dis-benefits.

[Knee Deep Mud!]

I've now used the Pretex maps at several events, and had no problems whatsoever (but then again I try to avoid diving map first into muddy puddles and marshes!)

I would have no problem with using the maps without bags at any event.

[RJ]

..... so make sure you bring your own map bag to events if you want to use one.

It makes the sport look shoddy and secondhand.

Proper map units, either in bags or on waterproof paper is what is needed. We don't want to return to the days of turning up to the start with a used plastic bag in our hands.... now do we!!

Will I be refused entry at WCOC's next event if I turn up with a faded old t-shirt and ripped lycras because I make the sport look shoddy?

If you think you look good in that setup and you think it enhances the image of the sport..... nuff said!

[johnloguk]

WARNING WARNING

FASHION POLICE DETECTED

BETTER GET RID OF THIS BEARD

[King Tim]

I use my A4 bags for filing papers.

I do likewise (you can see what's in them at a glance without a label) using larger bags as well

The A3 bags are great for keeping kit dry in your pack on the KIMM/OMM or any other wet-weather hike.

Personally (and I'm not sure why), having used the Pretex maps at almost every event I've been to this year, I prefer them.

But I do find them more difficult to fold neatly at speed (often my map has ended up kind of screwed up in my hand with the current part of the map just about flat and legible), and also the map bags do provide protection and storage for the easy-to-lose and tear splits print-outs.

I've had no problems with wet or bloody water-resistant maps. Yet.

[RJ]

WARNING WARNING

FASHION POLICE DETECTED

BETTER GET RID OF THIS BEARD

There obviously aren't enough of them... they are a bit thin on the ground (Thin RED line??) The Government needs to put some funding in!

[Timsands]

There is a huge gap between the quality of the waterproof maps used at NE1 and todays SOC event. I spent 2 hours today in the mud of the new forest where is rained persistently for the whole event. On finishing my map appeared no worse for wear than when I took it out of the box at the start. Any mud readily washed off and left no trace. Contrast this with the paper used for NE1 that absorbed mud like a sponge. There certainly is a lesson to be learnt. If organisers persist with waterproof maps they need to be using similar quality paper to that usedby SOC

[IanD]

There is a huge gap between the quality of the waterproof maps used at NE1 and todays SOC event .... If organisers persist with waterproof maps they need to be using similar quality paper to that used by SOC

Organisers don't print maps, printers do. The NE1 printer has already appeared in this forum once, perhaps he would like to comment on any differences between his paper/process and that of SOC's printer?

[Steve]

Organisers don't print maps, printers do.

But organisers specify what they want, or should be able to specify what they want by having sufficient knowledge of the various types of paper. If the NE1 printer has bought a truckload of the NE1 stuff we may be stuck with it for a while. Time to look out a few old bags...