Emit at the JK

[Karen B]

Have used SI for years with no problems, likewise the old style emit. But one event with the the new electronic things was enough. It was gibberish - eventually I was told that as I was the first starter the units weren't turning on till I got there, or some such excuse. I'm not inclined to waste time, money and effort going to the deep South if the JK uses new style emit.

[Supersaint]

Whatever system the JK uses i wouldn't miss it unless i was injured, it's going to be great!
And the V3 cards will only pick up another control if you go pretty darn close to it i.e. if you've just seen a control and go to it. So what if it registers on your card - if you know that it's not yours then you just carry on to the next one. At least you can see which control you've been to after having been to it, no such thing with SI.

[bendover]

typical bloody orienteers.

moan moan moan moan moan.

the JK is going to be fantastic. it pretty much always is. in fact i don't think i've ever not enjoyed a JK. The Forest of Dean is fantastic terrain. Certainly miles better terrain than this years JK. and this years JK was still great.

I know, as EMIT is so terrible, i think that the organisers should root around in the attic until they can find 500 pin punchers and 8000 control cards. wouldn't that be a perfect solution?

[distracted]

But one event with the the new electronic things was enough. It was gibberish - eventually I was told that as I was the first starter the units weren't turning on till I got there, or some such excuse.

Like the new SI units, which don't have to be programmed, the new Emit units get switched on by the presence of an e-card. This takes a bit longer to register than it would do if the control was already awake. The controls then stay switched on for 2 hours, so either no-one had switched them on in the first place (which they really should have) or the controls had been out for longer than 2 hours after being switched on.

I would have thought it's very unlikely that the contact free controls will be used for the two main individual days. If they're to be used at all it would most likely be for the sprint on the Friday. I also find it quite petty that people even consider not going to one of the premier events in the UK calendar purely because of the e-punching system being used.

We could go back to pin-punching if you'd like? - splits if you have a watch and waiting however long for the results to be processed... Ahh - Bendover agrees with me

[awk]

Well, having been decidedly unenthusiastic about Emit, I've found my attitude changing a lot with v3 cards, and even more so with contact free as we experienced at Oxford.

Just one question I've got for more experienced users: at the November Classic I didn't insert in the block, just quickly positioning the flat end on the baseplate, so didn't get a backup pin set, relying on the scrolling bars for my confirmation. Was that OK or was there still some risk compared to getting the backup, and if so what risk?

[distracted]

Just one question I've got for more experienced users: at the November Classic I didn't insert in the block, just quickly positioning the flat end on the baseplate, so didn't get a backup pin set, relying on the scrolling bars for my confirmation. Was that OK or was there still some risk compared to getting the backup, and if so what risk?

As long as the flat end of the card goes in the flat end of the unit then it should register - with the v3 you can check that it registers on the screen and you're fine. The only risk you take is the card failing, as with emit the battery is in the card.

Which brings up an interesting point - as there seem to be no back-up timing procedures at most e-punching events, what would happen if there was a card failure (emit and SI) or the finish unit(s) stopped working, or similar? For one thing, you wouldn't have an exact record of your time, secondly, would there be a record of the controls you've visited?

[mharky]

Is it no the new SI units that need to be activated by the first visitor? I aint' heard anything about emit, and didn't even know there were any new emit units, other than the ones that are a bit more red, but they are the same inside, aint they?


If anyone doesn't want to go to the JK just because of the punching system, then that's great, you are clearly in the sport for the wrong reason, so who cares if you don't turn up.

[distracted]

yep Mharky, and the contact free emit as well if no-one's turned it on already... we're not talking about the new shorter standard emit units here

[FromTheGrassyKnoll]

what would happen if there was a card failure (emit and SI) or the finish unit(s) stopped working, or similar?

Card Failure: You are stuffed... But given SI cards are very dumb they normally fail before the start so you know you have a problem and this is normally due to being too cold so if you warm them they sometimes come back to life. In SI, the organisers could read the controls but are unlikely to bother.

Finish Unit Failure: That's why there is normally either more than one box at the Finish or a Finish helper has a spare in their pocket.

That's enough answers...

When an Emit Unit's battery runs out... what happens next? Can you change the battery or do you need to buy a new unit?

PS

I don't care which punching system is used... I don't like the lack of a bleep with Emit nor the chunky brick but doesn't seem to change my enjoyment of the bits between the controls. I'll leave my dibb3r at home for the JK.

[Ed]

When an Emit Unit's battery runs out... what happens next? Can you change the battery or do you need to buy a new unit?

new unit. which makes it easier for Emit to introduce new technology because they only have to be backwards-compatible for the lifespan of a battery and hence old brikke. Since SI cards have no built-in limit to their lifespan then the units have to remain backward-compatible with the original cards, which I imagine makes the development job just that little bit harder.

[Mrs H.]

If anyone doesn't want to go to the JK just because of the punching system, then that's great, you are clearly in the sport for the wrong reason, so who cares if you don't turn up.

Well it must be because this is now the Season of Good Will but for once I am in total agrement with Mharky - If you do come and whinge and moan - you will only spoil it for the rest of us - so don't come. thre are people in my own club who would rather pin -punch or not go than do Emit like it hurts or something

and as Ben says - the forest of Dean is excellent terrain - both physically and technically challenging and with that unpredictable nature tha comes from having been worked in ancient times.

Given that this event was in jeopardy after the NE pulled out - we should all be very grateful to the local clubs for giving up their prime areas - and from the officials list putting in so much manpower.

Most of us may have prefered SI punching but to rubbish the event in any degree is simply being churlish and says more about the person doing it than the event it self

[FatBoy]

I agree Mrs H et al - go and enjoy it. There's no doubt Emit is harder to get the hang of, but you do get used to it - 3 or 4 days of it you'll all be experts. Perhaps the youngest children will struggle a little though.

There are still Emit V1 cards (Regnly?) about in Norway so new developments should really take account of them - they just chose not to! I think some people have been doing DIY battery changes on them.

In my experience the distance from the touch free controls one has to be for them to register varies quite a bit from about 1m to about 10cm - but I'm sure we'll be using "normal" controls for JK except perhaps the sprint.

I expect the backup card for the first day at least will be on the card (for those with hire cards) - otherwise there will be a pile of 2500+ Emit cards with no easy way of knowing who they need to go to. This is one example of something that is new and unproven compared to SI, but of course there was a first time at JK for SI as well.

Does anybody know how Emit radio controls work? Correct me if I'm wrong but has an Emit radio control ever been used in the UK?

Getting to units that aren't turned on is a pain - and yes it is the same with the new SI units although with SI at least you can program the length of time they are on for. In my opinion large events should be programmed with sufficient time from the planner turning them on to the first starters coming through. I think in some cases 2 hours may not be enough.

[Simon]

I expect the backup card for the first day at least will be on the card (for those with hire cards) - otherwise there will be a pile of 2500+ Emit cards with no easy way of knowing who they need to go to. This is one example of something that is new and unproven compared to SI, but of course there was a first time at JK for SI as well.

Emit was used for the spectator races at the World Orienteering Championships this year. There they had the backup cards printed (name, card number, course, start time, and possibly some other info) and ordered by start time. Then they pulled off the pile for a particular start time, arranged them into order (in a wooden strip with elastic down the front to hold them in place), and handed them out to the competitors as the first stage in the start procedure (i.e. at -4). Seemed to work rather well.

Does anybody know how Emit radio controls work? Correct me if I'm wrong but has an Emit radio control ever been used in the UK?

National and FCC event at Hambleden last year. No idea how they work, but I assume that the EmitUK team had something to do with them.

[gg]

I use EMIT every day in my work with hundreds of kids and they seem to manage it fine.

The flashing light is better than a beep as you could hear someone else's beep, and the display makes it so easy to check that you have punched while leaving the control.

OK, so it would be nice to have a beep as well maybe, but I don't really feel there are any disadvantages.

[Steve]

The good thing about having both SI and Emit is that being in competition with each other they are forced to introduce new technology, improve support software, customer service etc. Imagine if we only had SI there would be no incentive to innovate and we'd be stuck with the same old stuff all the time.

All you Emitophobes have got to learn to stop worrying and start to love Emit it's just as good as SI when you get used to it, maybe better.