British Relay Classes

[Guest]

A paper was written at the behest of Elite Competitions Group and presented to Event Operations Committee a month or two ago recommending a reduction in classes at the British.

Relays are about head to head racing and small fields do not help that. The ideal is lots of teams in each class with racing all the way down the field not just at the sharp end. That is what happens in the big Scandinavian relays.

A reduction in the number of classes and changes to recommended winning times (generally shorter) could happen for next year if the recommendation gets through the system.

Elite Competitions Group is due to meet in June to agree the programme for 2006 and an outline programme for 2007. Any ideas welcome re UKCup, BEOC, UK Relay League. Regions have also been asked to nominate "corresponding members" so if you are interested let your Regional Association know.

John Palmer
Chairman of Elite Competitions Group

[Guest]

All of these classes are clearly not meeting the requirements of clubs competing.

As someone who organised our club's relay entries for several years, I'd agree wholeheartedly with the above.

but others seem to just take the easy option of bunging people onto "ad hoc" and "short open"

With the BRC classes AdHoc wasn't the easy option, it was often the only option. Getting three people in the same age class was often an impossibility. The main reason for choosing Short Open and AdHoc being that these courses give the length courses that most people seem to want to run. Wherever possible though I entered short open teams for the majority of people, with AdHocs for those who were not up to running a short open leg (the very old and young).

As to the solution?
The JK 120+ etc classes would be a big improvement as they are a lot easier to manage, and as has been discussed, if someone drops out through injury etc it is actually possible to shuffle teams to keep them competitive. At least one JK after several drop outs I managed to do a total reshuffle, loose one team and keep the rest competitive. The restrictive BRC classes would have resulted in either noncompetitive or incomplete teams.

The other alternative, which I would personally prefer is the following four courses (ignoring junior courses):
Open - for the elite
Short Open - for everyone else
Mens & womens courses for each.

This would give large classes, resulting in the real head to head experience that relay orienteering should be, and at its best, is. In my opinion, nothing beats being in a large mass start at a relay.


PS. If you stick with the age based relay classes used in BRC, then why isn't there an M70 class, as juding by a post on a different thread there were more M70L competitos than M21L??

[Guest]

Reducing the number of classes to encourage head to head racing and more teams in each class was done for the Harvester in around 1997. The result was a few more teams in the classes that were left, but a significant reduction in the total number of people taking part.
Most orienteers like winning things - even if it is only a bronze medal in a three runner race.

[graeme]

Relays are about head to head racing and small fields do not help that. The ideal is lots of teams ... racing all the way down the field

You dont need to reduce the number of classes to do that.

You only need to reduce the number of courses.

So, first decide on a set of courses to cover what people want to run, and let anyone run them, then worry about what arcane restrictions teams must satisfy to get prizes.

Graeme

[FatBoy]

I agree with Graeme. There's no problem with having prizes xyz for first M45 team, first mixed 60+ team etc but there's no need for so many courses.

Having run first at JK on the short open I found (even before making my worst mistake for years) that the pack thing really didn't happen like it used to. Packing more people in will get the fun back!

I'd love to do Graeme's Scotish relay but some inconsiderate friend of mine is getting married but still it's a party

[Guest]

Head to head racing is good, but only happens if you can keep up with the field. The gaps between the faster and slower runners grow as the race proceeds.

Athletics doesn't stage a 4 x 5000m - too boring as the gaps would make it impossible to keep track of who is winning. Why not make all relay races much shorter - 20 minutes per leg would be plenty, perhaps 15 minutes for some legs. Closer racing, more sprint finishes and more time to spectate as well as run.

[ifor]

looks like they were trying shorter courses, if it was not for the fact that they published the target times. They all looked to of been short and I must say I had assumed the open distance in the program was a typo, it was so obviously too short. As things were with the weather I don't think anyone minded the short courses.

Ifor

[rocky]

Why not make all relay races much shorter - 20 minutes per leg would be plenty, perhaps 15 minutes for some legs. Closer racing, more sprint finishes and more time to spectate as well as run.

Ahem

Watch out for the Edinburgh Relays, 22nd October, 1 race, prizes ago-go.

[brooner]

Why not make all relay races much shorter - 20 minutes per leg would be plenty, perhaps 15 minutes for some legs. Closer racing, more sprint finishes and more time to spectate as well as run.

Watch out for the Edinburgh Relays, 22nd October, 1 race, prizes ago-go.

and also very similar to the planned purple thistle relays: short, sharp and exciting.

[Wattok]

and also very similar to the planned purple thistle relays: short, sharp and exciting.

oh really?! and when and where are they again?



Nb: PT is not a nopesport organised event

[Guest]

I went back to Rocky's ahem -
"..so i propose that the premier class be made up of legs with a elt of 35-25-35, and all the other open classes be abolished. this should allow all runners over 18 to get a competitive run, and no one should be discouraged because of the distance. a 4-5km leg shouldn't be too much for anyone???"

For many of the older competitors (like me, a 55), 4-5km can be too long in a relay. So I think a single course does not work. Reduce the course numbers but make the courses really short for the vet classes to get to my 20 minute target

[awk]

You dont need to reduce the number of classes to do that. You only need to reduce the number of courses.

So, first decide on a set of courses to cover what people want to run, and let anyone run them, then worry about what arcane restrictions teams must satisfy to get prizes.Graeme

This only works if the results etc. are focused primarily on the course: for instance the M35s and 40s currently run the same course, as do M45s and 50s, but because everything is based on the class, there is still real sense of a 'bigger' race.

Incidentally, I agree with the need to shorten courses drastically if wanting to attract older competitors. 20 minute winning times sound about right - the standard at the front of even M and W40/45 has improved dramatically in recent years, and courses have got longer and longer. Looking at my wife's courses over the years, she's expected to run longer now than she did as a W21.

[graeme]

...and then some of us can't be bothered hanging around an extra day to run for 20 minutes.

The big relays that work, where people really want to run and will travel: Tiomila, Jukola etc. have exclusively, worthwhile long courses, not poxy short ones. If short courses were the answer, then short races would be as popular as badge events.

Graeme

[Guest]

No, I don't agree, Graeme. Tio and Jukola don't attract that many older competitors, just the many 21's and slightly older that are available over there. In GB, we will not get the numbers without ensuring suitable courses for the GB age profile.

And don't think of it as a 20 min run. It is a 60 min run shared by a team of three. On the track, they don't rush to check out their own times, they see which team gets to the finish first.

And sorry, I am not trying to do this anonymously (this and above) - just can't remember my password.

Bill

[Guest]

...and then some of us can't be bothered hanging around an extra day to run for 20 minutes.
Graeme

Shouldn't be so good then. For most of us oldies, a 20-25 minute winning time by an elite runner would mean somewhat longer running time for us.