JEC 2013

[EddieH]

Whilst it is obviously possible to over-race, (it is also possible to over-train,) trying to straightjacket everyone into the same mould is ludicrous. There are those that scarcely ever compete in their sport bar once every 4 years at the Olympics, all other occasional outings being treated as training. There are also those that love racing pretty regularly and benifit from it - it's their psychological make-up.

Personally although never a true elite i need upcoming races to motivate me. However I can say this as I personally know of our current super elites who feel the same way I do about this.

It is easy to say that if they raced less they'd do better, but I don't believe it - the psychological part of sport is so vital. In any case group "training" can become very very competitive which I would see as essential anyway.

[andy]

Inspire these juniors give them the opportunities to develop and experience international races, make them want to commit to the sport and aim to be the best.

this!

[pete.owens]

I can understand the funding constraints - and also JEC being a low priority for BOF. However, it seems strange to announce that there will be an official team - with a selection policy which states:

JEC is being included in the Programme for 2013 to give those junior athletes who may not have experienced international competition in 2013

and encourage people to travel to selection races and then select a minimal team - including some with international experience.

It's almost as if the aim was to minimise UK representation at the event. By announcing an official selection policy they prevent any self-organised group getting off the ground.

[Kitch]

Gaining experience
Selection to representative international races isn't the only way to gain experience, push boundaries, discover limitations.
If people need "experience"
You can do this at home, by running up a class for example.
by gaining selection to their club's first team for a JK or British relay and then crapping it as they realise they've now got to come up with the goods.
You can do it abroad
Go to Spring Cup, go to O' Fest, O'ringen etc. orienteer your way across scandinavia for 6 weeks of the summer.
If people are itching to pay then they can pay for this.

When the only junior international race in the whole calender was "JWOC" this is what we did.

If people want to be spoon fed then wait on BOF, and keep waiting.
If they want to succeed then they need to take charge of their own destiny.

[madmike]

Gaining experience
Selection to representative international races isn't the only way to gain experience, push boundaries, discover limitations.
If people need "experience"
You can do this at home, by running up a class for example.
by gaining selection to their club's first team for a JK or British relay and then crapping it as they realise they've now got to come up with the goods.
You can do it abroad
Go to Spring Cup, go to O' Fest, O'ringen etc. orienteer your way across scandinavia for 6 weeks of the summer.
If people are itching to pay then they can pay for this.

When the only junior international race in the whole calender was "JWOC" this is what we did.

If people want to be spoon fed then wait on BOF, and keep waiting.
If they want to succeed then they need to take charge of their own destiny.

Good post - well put

[buzz]

Gaining experience
Selection to representative international races isn't the only way to gain experience, push boundaries, discover limitations.
If people need "experience"
You can do this at home, by running up a class for example.
by gaining selection to their club's first team for a JK or British relay and then crapping it as they realise they've now got to come up with the goods.
You can do it abroad
Go to Spring Cup, go to O' Fest, O'ringen etc. orienteer your way across scandinavia for 6 weeks of the summer.
If people are itching to pay then they can pay for this.

When the only junior international race in the whole calender was "JWOC" this is what we did.

If people want to be spoon fed then wait on BOF, and keep waiting.
If they want to succeed then they need to take charge of their own destiny.

Good point, young people these days don't seem as enterprising (ironically I blame Thatcher!) although I know some still get on their bike.

Independent world travel isn't an option though for the EYOC W16's and almost every interview you see with JWOC medallist mentions EYOC as a stepping stone in experience and motivation. Given that BOF's targets are podium orientated even at junior level, surely they are shooting themselves in the foot by not giving aspiring youngsters the best chance they can of progressing.

Also, back in the day BOF provided training tours abroad which gave experience, contacts and, most importantly, motivation for young people to get out there and do their own thing.

[Lard]

I also agree with you Kitch but as Buzz says some travel is restricted to a certain age...
I have no doubt that our best juniors ARE travelling to other foreign competitions to gain experience ie Spring Cup. So it does pain me that BO seems to be taking all the credit for athlete performances when actually most athletes have done the vast majority of the hard work off their own back and would be good whether there was a BO programme or not!

It's the early years that's more important as a stepping stone for athletes deciding on what sport career path to take. Between the age of 10 and 16 I reckon. At this point you're on a pathway or you're not.

What helps most folk decide that it's going to be orienteering for them?
The REGIONAL SQUADS & JROS

THEY deserve a lot of credit & recognition for athletes coming up through the system.

[SJC]

If JEC and EYOC are seen as development opportunities for the juniors, and BOF aren't really interested in them, then BOF should hand these events over to the REGIONAL SQUADS & JROS and let them sort out the teams.

[DIDSCO]

Kitch has the right idea about getting out there and making your own experience, but at the same time this needs to combined with proper international racing and training camps which are very well organised with the right coaching support. Orienteering is an extremely technical sport, the standards are higher nowadays, its not possible to get to the very top by just waltzing around scandinavia with a rucksack.

Lard is right about being a greater focus on the younger ages. The best coaches in Britain should be working with 6 to 16 year olds, this is where the big difference for the future can be made. There's no reason with the right coaching that 7-8 year olds can already be running and navigating confidently through detailed terrain, providing them with a set of automatic skills that kids are so much better at learning, developing, and using than any adult is capable as we know through research about body development and learning skills and physical experiences as a child.

[Ravinous]

Bearing in mind the mantra of seeking solutions, not excuses...

How about getting involved in the Baltic Cup?
http://ok77.fi/index.php/fi/bjc2013

If BOF aren't providing the opportunities, then why not England and Scotland sending full teams to this each year? (Too late for this year I suspect!??)

This is what the website says....

Baltic Junior Cup 2013
Welcome to Southern Finland to compete in and follow the
Baltic Junior Cup in orienteering 4-6 October 2013!

The Cup weekend is organised for the top youth orienteers from the countries around the Baltic Sea: Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and Finland.

This year's competition will be held in Finland in the beautiful and challenging forests of the Nuuksio National Park in Espoo. We are also going to share the excitement of this competition with everyone around the world through online GPS tracking and online results. So stay tuned, because there is more to come!

We look forward to seeing you all in Finland!

It looks a pretty cool event for 16s/18s/20s - Long on Sat, Relay on Sunday (which is mixed ages so a good team event). I have recently been helping some Lithuania 18s who have linked up with Ravinen (Gross would be proud) and they are pretty excited about it. It is a big Junior Development International in the region.

[graeme]

With regard to elite juniors, I'd just agree with what kitch says. There is perhaps scope to identify "coaches" outside the main structure who can give advice at the elite level but would be useless at teaching white courses.

But the idea that sending half a dozen children of active orienteers to JEC is a sensible approach to sport development in general is ridiculous. We parents of keen juniors have pushed this model for years, and we can see the result: the horrible demographics the sport faces. Every positive quote from one the highly-selected handful who benefited just reinforces the view that we just don't care about the average or novice junior.

You might think that when e.g. the British M14 champion can't even make his regional squad, someone would figured out that this pathway is far, far, far too narrow.

Remember: I have a big mouth and I like elite orienteers - just imagine what the people who dont say in private!

[Vidalos]

To avoid Graeme's middle class childrens outings to such development based events such as EYOC or JEC then why not set some base criteria that has to be achieve ? Currently it seems that how Juniors perform against each other in selection races is the criteria. So why not have additional base criteria that have to be fulfilled, given this sport involved a fair amount of running why not set a 3K, 5K or 10K time depending on the age level ?

Didn't the Czech Junior team have a 16 min 5K qualification criteria I seem to remember someone on here mentioning. Then it might give juniors something to train for and achieve to show they are deserving of a place at such events

[graeme]

why not set some base criteria that has to be achieve ?

What a good idea.
BOF could appoint some people with elite experience to set the criteria, which would be a mix of the subjective and objective, then the people could decide who met the criteria and therefore could represent GBR. I even thought of a name: we could call the people "selectors" and the criteria a "selection policy".

To avoid Graeme's middle class childrens outings

Don't get me wrong - as long as events are only accessible by private car we're stuck with being a middle-class sport, and middle class children's outings are the best way to keep kids involved. Like Nick says, BOF could just pick an exciting international event and get as many kids/families/coaches there as they can. You don't need to put 20% of them in National kit to say who (someone thinks) are good and who's not - there are results lists for that.

[Vidalos]

Ok Graeame , to be serious where is the published running criteria for 16's and 18's then other than the events they need to run in against each other ? where is the published min running performance that has to be achieved ? The only published criteria is performance relative to others not against some base running performance criteria , or am I missing something ?

[andypat]

BOF could appoint some people with elite experience to set the criteria, which would be a mix of the subjective and objective, then the people could decide who met the criteria and therefore could represent GBR.

The selectors may use a mixture of subjective and objective criteria, but unless there is a system which says "If you achieve this you will qualify...." then the overall system is surely subjective.

While it might be a difficult thing to set a specific target time, we are essentially a running sport, so I think it would be no bad thing to have a minimum standard 3k/5k/10k time set to be considered for qualification at each level. Aside from giving the individuals a more objective idea of what is required, it wouldn't be a bad thing for outsiders to the sport (eg journalists) to have a benchmark on which to gauge the performance of out top athletes.