Cancellation - Was it my fault?

[Mrs H]

And for what it's worth I think that your comment is outrageous too.

....err - steady on! Reading between the lines i'd say Nathan is a young man who was hoping to secure an interland selection on the back of what was undoubtedly a long journey by his parents - who knows - it might have taken some effort on his part to persuade them to take him.

If a youngster after a bit of selection can't be 'me, me, me" then they're probably not worth the selection - I mean look at Mharky

Perhaps Nathan - and all the other disappointed youngsters out there might be appeased by a speedy announcement from the selectors about alternative selections events - and i don't mean retrospective - that would be very unfair.

[Vidalos]

FFS - respect the organisers' decision. They are the ones who had the risk, had done all that planning and organising and would have been held responsible. You only had to travel there.

cbg 'You only had to travel there' seems to be as biased a comment as any other on here and appears to show no regard for what that incurs for many people wether that be

The weeks and days of training or preparation to make the trip
Giving up wage earning days , not everyone works Mon to Fri
Cost of accommodation and travel
Time , 5-6 hour drive each why for some
And the choice between competing commitments for a given weekend

The organising club will be in part compensated for their efforts by retaining part or all of the entry fees , the people who chose to enter this event will not. So please show more respect and regard for the commitments individuals, groups and families make to attend events such as this, and it is certainly not just a case of ' you only had to travel there'

[Tatty]

All the expenses for the event had already occurred. The Club is fully justified at keeping the entry fee. The cancellation was "an act of God" and on most insurance documents this is excluded from compensation.

[NeilC]

All the expenses for the event had already occurred.

Even BOF levy?

P.S. Back to the original point - I do blame MacMan both for this event and for my lack of cricket over the summer.

[Red Adder]

I found the comments of Arnold & Nathan very disappointing. I can assure you that theirs is nothing compared to that of the organisers who would have spent hundreds of hours in to putting on the event, only to have their efforts dashed. Safety is paramount and had someone been badly injured or killed the effects of the organisers, and quite possibly the sport, would have been devastataing.

[Red Adder]

On a brighter note I'd like to thank NOR for putting on their event yesterday in very trying conditions. Despite the persistent rain (the old adage rain before 7 fine by 11 certainly didn't apply) and a bitter wind the organising team still looked pretty cheerful when I squelched in around 1:15. And they still had another 3+ hours to go before everything could have been cleared away. We must never forget that without people like these we wouldn't have a sport to moan about.

[Jon Brooke]

The cancellation was "an act of God" and on most insurance documents this is excluded from compensation.

This is a circular argument.

It was only an act of God if you are 100% happy that the right planning had been done and the right decision taken, which is what those complaining are on about.

I was one amongst the disappointed throng.

Personally I'd have been V happy to run, but on balance, and on reflection, I think the controller got a hideously pressured decision right (despite my whinging to one of the marshals on the spot - sorry about that). Driving to/from the event there was a massive amount of standing water on the roads and as a regular in the New Forest I think that the the conditions were definitely extreme and not really within the normal range of what could be expected in November.

I've a couple of hopefully constructive comments to make though:

First off, we were charged our £1 to park and then 50 meters down the track told that the event was cancelled. But we were told only that, and the marshal had no further information. It would have been better if the first person meeting incoming cars were a bit better briefed on what was going on - surely only a matter of a few minutes to sort this? Most people are far happier to take bad news if they are given even a little bit of supporting information.

Many people were turning round and leaving at this point and we probably would have done too had we not arranged to meet up with a few people there, so we parked up and had a mooch about.

It was only after about 10 minutes that we cottoned on that the wayfarer courses were still available so we took our kids around one of those and actually had quite a nice time with them. See briefing point above. I think even more people could have done this if they'd been made aware of this option.

Commiserations also to UltraSport and CompassPoint and the other caterers/traders who also would have taken a hit on the event. Perhaps it would also have been good to let people park up (there was loads of good parking on hard standing) just so as they might have been able to go and spent a few quid on their Christmas O gift shopping?

[andy]

The November classic is a major race and for it to planned in an area that could potentially flood is ridiculous.

Just like Manhattan/Staten Island was a stupid place to build a city?

Seriously, the New Forest looks like great terrain (never run there, just driven through it) so why not take the very very slight risk that something might go on in order to have a really great race. On this occasion it went wrong, so what? If the event had gone ahead and you'd drowned I'm sure your family would have taken a very different stance.

[soc123]

I am watching with interest this thread developing with the usual "poles apart" comments - from the very self centred to the very benevolent.
I just wonder how the comments wold differ if the event was run by a professional outfit eg Questars and they saw fit to cancel at a late stage.
What some contributors are forgetting is that all orienteering events are manned by amateur (albeit trained) volunteers, not professional sports organisers.
Criticism should not be levelled at them for a decision made that you do not happen to agree with.
Especially when distance and cost are cited as some sort of excuse that the event should go on "come hell or [literally] high water, disregarding the safety implications.
Perhaps a BOF guideline that would graphically correlate distance and cost against the severity of the prevailing hazardous conditions! (tongue severely in cheek).
I didn't envy the organising team's position the weather conditions put them in, but the correct decision was made at the right time, before the mass of orienteers were subjected to those prevailing conditions.
The above is a personal view and not an official SOC response.

[Paul Frost]

It sounds like one of the most important things that ALL organisers need to learn from this incident is the importance of communication, both timely and detailed.

As has been mentioned above, the lack of clear detailed information is what leads to frustration and anger.

The ability to send out an SMS to all competitors is not that difficult, it just needs some forward thinking and planning. Most people have a mobile phone and carry it with them, so this is probably the best "last minute" chance to inform people of a problem. Plan for this when setting up your online entries.

Email, websites and social media will work for those people with smartphones and tablets. Here you could be more detailed with your explanation and offer options.

The coverage of 3G networks is getting quite wide now and I would encourage organisers to check network signal availability in the assembly area, and if it's there make sure that you have a means of accessing it. The cost of dongles and PAYG sim cards is so low that there is not much excuse for not having the ability to connect to the WWW.

Make sure that the people on site can get access the club website, Facebook & Twitter accounts, to post last minute info on them if needed.

If there are any doubts the night before, then a warning post on the website advising people that the event might be cancelled if conditions change will diffuse some of the frustration/anger on the day as people will be prepared for the disappointment.

[EddieH]

I don't blame the decision makers at all bearing in mind our current litigous society. Indeed I have no doubt that if orienteering was invented today it would be banned certainly for the young.

I am sure that when I started orienteering cancellation would not have been considered. One of my earliest events was a November Classic and the stream I crossed there was far deeper and faster flowing than anything yesterday.

I am simply sad that the way things are going these decisions are going to happen more and more for progressively less serious conditions.

I don't doubt that there were potential dangers yesterday for the less fit or even fit but totally careless. I don't doubt that there are some potential dangers in every event. A balance has to be struck. We cannot blame SOC for the decision they made whatever we personally feel about the conditions.

For your interest I ran off towards the start and was lucky enough to find the start official who gave me a short brown map which I ran round at my own risk. There were places early on where I "wimped" out of direct crossings which in serious competition I would not have done. By the latter part the streams were innocuous but it was clear from the flood marks that the main stream had been very wide in places.

I enjoyed my run and would recommend allowing people to take maps in similar circumstances. Then it is up to them if they want to go out at their own risk, and the lack of competition should make safety sense prevail.

[mister blobs]

It sounds like one of the most important things that ALL organisers need to learn from this incident is the importance of communication, both timely and detailed.

I agree. My major complaint is the lack of communication not the decision. If I wanted to cancel an event then I'd make sure that the information was put up on the club website (in bold) and BOF website first. If I couldn't do that there and then in the forest then I'd call a club member who could make the changes.
Like others at the event we only found out that the Wayfarers course was still running by chance - we were told at the car park entrance that the whole event was cancelled.

[mister blobs]

For your interest I ran off towards the start and was lucky enough to find the start official who gave me a short brown map which I ran round at my own risk.

I am totally confused by this. Either it was unsafe to run so no-one should have run or it wasn't? Surely if people have run the level B courses already then SOC can't re-run the event in March as they seem to be planning to do?

[Nathan.]

So what if i'm am talking like it's 'me me me', i am probably expressing views many of my peers have. The comment abou the tropical storm in america is irrelevant as well, New York was built in a place for easy access to trading routes to america during the time when many explorers were discovering new lands with unsophisticated technology, nothing like we have today. Whereas the event was clearly not planned in a place where freak weather conditions, such as those we have in the UK, could be manageable to run in, the fact that it was so far away and cancelled on such short notice ruined many peoples plans for the weekend. Yes cbg, i could have gone for a cross country run, yet i had prepared to go for a orienteering race therefore the thought of a meander around some woods without any purpose seems a bit of waste, if i wanted to go for a cross country run, i could have stayed at home and gone on some of my usual routes, but the fact is that i didn't want to go on a cross country run, i was there to do orienteering. People gave up there weekends to go there but their plans were scuppered due to poor planning. Saying i may have drowned is ridiculous because i'm fairly sure i have this thing called common sense which prevents people from doing foolish things such as oh i don't know, running in or through over flowing rivers! Yes it probably would have been a great race however there are other areas of the new forest that could have provided the same level of racing without such risk.

[ruth]

For your interest I ran off towards the start and was lucky enough to find the start official who gave me a short brown map which I ran round at my own risk.

I am totally confused by this.

Confused and also very fustrated. We would have loved to have run our courses - at totally our own risk and been prepared to quit/wimp out where necessary. Even without emit or kites it would have made the journey at least worth it for the training. We were told that this was absolutely not allowed, for two reasons - safety, but also fairness as the event is going to be re run... fair enough.

So presumably those who have already run the courses won't be allowed to run again? has anyone got a record of who those people were?

in the end we went for a long run on the adjacent bit of forest/heath and it was a bit wet underfoot, but lovely and sunny and perfect conditions for running.

Very disappointed that some people were allowed to run their courses.