British Long

[Mrs H]

Ha ha ha - loving it.

Of course we may be making the erroneous assumption that the organisers (BOF+local clubs?) actually wanted maximal participation. This may not have been the case. I have heard it said before that not everyone involved in orienteering in the Lakes likes large numbers descending on the fells and forests at holiday time. If this was the case that BOC has been quite successful in finding the limit at which a large number of people feel it's too much money/trouble to do.

I don't think I'm whingeing either. I've made my choice. I'd only have done the short course anyway to save myself for the relays as I really think I ought to do my best there as the club is paying. That's probably would have worked out at 75p per minute

We have reached the point where these kinds of prices plus escallating travel costs are tipping the balance. It's worth marking.

[The Cumbrian]

At the end of the day travel costs mostly outweigh the increased cost of entry, £10 difference isn't two gallons of fuel. If you're travelling 300 miles each way you might as well do the lot. And if you're coming to the Lakes you may as well compete on the best it has to offer...and Dalegarth is definitely up there. I think BLDC 2011 was around 1700 not 1900 (?) so not quite the reduction some would claim in this years entry.

[daffdy]

At the end of the day travel costs mostly outweigh the increased cost of entry, £10 difference isn't two gallons of fuel. If you're travelling 300 miles each way you might as well do the lot. And if you're coming to the Lakes you may as well compete on the best it has to offer...and Dalegarth is definitely up there. I think BLDC 2011 was around 1700 not 1900 (?) so not quite the reduction some would claim in this years entry.

1900 entries, 1700 starters in round numbers last year. According to the Fabian4 page that has mysteriously gone blank in the last 24 hours... (it was here: http://www.fabian4.co.uk/start/list.aspx?EventID=436).

[harry]

haha

Well at least Claire is going so if the Women's British Champ is anyone but her they'll have to get past the woman who kicked everyone's butts at the JK..

[graeme]

loving it.

Just wait till we get to a subject we don't agree about
and yes - that W35E race should be pretty close.

[madmike]

that W35E race should be pretty close.

you are a very funny man but living dangerously today methinks

[Arnold]

For the Elites:
I think the best answer would be to have BEOC separately to BOC but still attached to a big event - this year the Selection Races seem the obvious option. This means all the best Elites should show up, and it also allows any 18s,20s,35s,40s to both be age group champion and run in the Elite champs as they're separate events.

For everyone else:
Interesting debate as to whether lower attendance at BOC matters as long as all the best runners are going (which seems to be what's happening this year). In an ideal world you'd have both high participation and great terrain, but if that's a tradeoff that needs making then I suppose lower attendance doesn't matter as long as the casual orienteers don't feel disenfranchised by not attending BOC. (Except BOC is supposed to bring in money for BOF so they won't be too happy)

PS - BOC 2013 is on Winterfold and Blackheath near Dorking. Gatwick is around the corner, assembly is next to parking and I hope we won't charge 29 quid..clearly it's not the Lakes but it'll be a great navigational and physical challenge nonetheless so put 5 May 2013 in your diaries now

[Mrs H]

£10 difference isn't two gallons of fuel.

Let's be straight about this - we are talking £29 x 5 that's £145 Honestly I'm not complaining I'm entirely happy not to go. I'm merely saying it's interesting to note that this is the point at which I - and a lot of other people - have had to draw the line. that's all.

[awk]

I'm merely saying it's interesting to note that this is the point at which I - and a lot of other people - have had to draw the line.

Sensible decision too. Some of us are rather slower on the uptake.

Winterfold and Pitch Hill really appeals though: my school cross-country course ran across Winterfold, and one of my first dozen or so events was the Surrey Schools Champs in (I think) 1971 on a brown and black only map of Pitch Hill. Have enjoyed all the events since too. Time to assembly from home (just north of Leeds) looks as it'll be rather less than this year too.

[Simon E]

BOCStarters.jpg (71.14 KiB) Viewed 4210 times

Perhaps some real numbers would help. The graph shows the number of starters at BOC for the last 13 years.

Some notes:

1) Number of pre-entries is likely to have been about 10% higher.

2) Separate individual elite long races are not included.

3) 2001 was Foot and Mouth year. BOC was reallocated to a National Event at Newborough in the autumn.

4) Areas were:
1999 2318 Graythwaite (NWOA)
2000 2171 Haugh Wood (WMOA)
2001 1615 Newborough Warren (WMOA)
2002 1162 Magilligan Strand (NIOA)
2003 2010 Wharncliffe (YHOA)
2004 1312 Simonside (NEOA)
2005 1473 Penhale Sands (SWOA)
2006 1776 Furnace Wood (SEOA)
2007 1760 Pwll Ddu (WOA)
2008 1439 Culbin East (SOA)
2009 1737 Hampton Ridge (SCOA)
2010 1834 Abraham's Valley (WMOA)
2011 1693 Wharncliffe & Greno (YHOA)

It is left as an exercise for the reader to determine any correlation between the number of starters and travel time from a point roughly near Matlock.

[graeme]

2) Separate individual elite long races are not included.
So add an extra 150 or so to cover missing people at 2000, 2003, 2004, 2009.
Doesn't change the conclusion.

[madmike]

Graeme,
did some of your 150 not run at both?

[AndyC]

From memory 2004 @ Simonside had dreadful weather (I was manning a crossing point on a road and had juniors abandoning their run into my car- I was then getting them back to assembly in known orienteer's (who thought they were leaving until I flagged them down ) cars . It was a two day event and day 2 was lost completely through the effect of the wind and rain. (I've just remembered that I'm still owed a free run for that)
That all may mean a bigger difference between entries and runs

BTB I'm planning the NE Score Champs at Simonside later in the year....

[Simon E]

That all may mean a bigger difference between entries and runs

Don't think the weather will have had that great an influence. From the deep south Simonside was a long way away on an area that didn't look particularly attractive, so I didn't enter.

Since 1979 it therefore fits in a select group of British Long Champs that I haven't been to: 1981 (Dipton, NEOA), 1986 (Achilty, SOA), 1991 (Kyloe, NEOA) and 2004 (Simonside, NEOA). Spot any trends?

[AndyC]

A pity because Simonside is quite a nice runnable mixed forest with some interesting moorland around -only downside is that it has significant height difference from the North to the South (but that will make a score event more interesting).
Dipton isn't the most challenging area I agree -still fun to run on due to changes in vegetation.
Neither fits MHarky's comments about the NE being coniferous plantations in boring moorland (we're trying to avoid those)