Scottish 6 Days - Thank You

[EddieH]

Personally I really appreciated the short run-ins.

I also quail at mention of learning how better to site controls for publicity reasons. Yet further dumbing down of the nature of the sport methinks!

[DJM]

freefall said

The big screen and GPS was a first in Scotland (GB) though of course GPS was used at The Harvester and the big screen at the Park World Tour.

and don't forget that the big screen was first used in the UK at World Cup 2005 in the South East!

[Mrs H]

Like I said in the other thread and now i've managed to get my hands (briefly) on a proper computer. Brill event, great areas and maps, great proximity of events. Loved the lift sharing and walk back, the Wifi, the lack of midges, generally good weather etc. Thought the toilets a bit iffy and didn't think Goggi brought much to the event.

Very proud of my 3rd place buff but perhaps next time the bronze ones could be a bit more reddy bronze, the silver a bit more silvery blue and the gold ones yellowy gold. when I put this one on it made me look like I was trying to hide my greying hair with a mousy fabric wig

[Freefall]

The toilets were indeed a bit iffy. They (West Coast Loos to name and shame) were the one supplier that really let me down over the week. Showers (Scotloo) were OK, Tommy Maxwell was great doing improvements to fields, all the bridge stuff was good (Fion Construction and CTS Bridges), Barrie and Amplified Sound again, Trakmats (Enduromats) were superb, fire extinguisher people etc etc. Sorry about your buff Mrs H - I am glad they had labels on as I couldn't distinguish bronze from gold. Congrats anyway!

[Mrs H]

Well I'm certainly not complaining but this is actually more flattering

[andypat]

I also quail at mention of learning how better to site controls for publicity reasons. Yet further dumbing down of the nature of the sport methinks!

The Scottish sprints last year had their spectator control hanging off the bin shelter at KB - thought there was a nice statue it could have been on - but maybe would have been too easy?

[LostAgain]

[quote="madmike] punching starts [/quote]

What are the guidelines for punching starts?

Some competitors who were supposed to have early starts, as noted elsewhere this was a distinct disadvantage, "chose" to miss their start and take in some cases a much later start.

To me this is not in the spirit of the event. I feel that if for some reason someone misses their start and is started in another start block then one of their subsequent runs should be switched to the early start block! or they are allowed to run NC.

It could be argued that to be competitive you should have start times in different start blocks!

[andypat]

You probably need to distinguish between "punching starts" and "late" starts who punched.

People with punching starts were helpers, organisers etc who needed some sort of flexibility to allow them to help out.

I'd a punching start option all week. As part of the central organising team I was helping out in various roles on each day. In fact I never made any of my actual start times although on a couple of occasions I didnt miss them by much. On day 5 I punch started about 30mins before the official event start time of 10am to get back to help organise the buses from 12.30 onwards. A definite disadvantage I can tell you with the bracken!

Conversely on Day 6 I was helping with merchandise till 13:15 and had to run to the hilltop start to get there before 2pm. They were presenting the prizes as I was running down to the finish. There wasnt a huge amount of benefit of being a late starter in the heather.

So if by punching starts you mean late starts I agree, but logistically I am not sure whow you would do it. I know of one competitor who was probably late for his start on Day 5 as the bus driver had to take a mandatory break after 4 hours so the bus was delayed. Not the competitors fault.

[LostAgain]

You probably need to distinguish between "punching starts" and "late" starts who punched.

People with punching starts were helpers, organisers etc who needed some sort of flexibility to allow them to help out.

I mean people, not helpers nor split start parent, who missed their start, either through no fault of their own or on purpose (blatant cheating). This can very easily be identified at the start and relayed to organiser.

[Paul Frost]

What are the guidelines for punching starts?
Some competitors who were supposed to have early starts, as noted elsewhere this was a distinct disadvantage, "chose" to miss their start and take in some cases a much later start.
...I feel that if for some reason someone misses their start and is started in another start block then one of their subsequent runs should be switched to the early start block! or they are allowed to run NC.

A start time was allocated to everyone, but members of the central organising clubs had the option (without an inquisition) to punch every day if needed, and members of the day organising clubs had one for that day only. The instruction was that whenever possible you should try and make your allocated time.

If anyone else asked for a punching start they had to provide a good reason, and this was recorded, so that controllers could check there was not abuse of the system.

Whilst I can see your logic in re-allocating later start times, just think of the work!
At the end of the day all punching start people would need to have a new bib printed and possibly change up to 5 start times, looking for spaces in the start block (not easy on some courses, as they were almost at maximum capacity), then how would you convey that to the competitor?
The 6 Days is a holiday event, not the world champs, and there are limits to what is reasonable and achievable for 3000+ competitors.

[seabird]

The 6 Days is a holiday event, not the world champs, and there are limits to what is reasonable and achievable for 3000+ competitors.

Well said.

Great event (well at least the 3 days I ran!) and well organised.

[graeme]

and this was recorded, so that controllers could check there was not abuse of the system.

I don't see how a controller could do this, as the abuse (if any) would be systematic through the week. As a controller, I can't imagine any circumstance of taking action unless there was a protest, which there won't be because competitors who might care don't have the information. A possible solution would be to have an asterisk against people who missed their start.

The 6 Days is a holiday event, not the world champs

Very important not to forget this. Even if lateness is the competitor's fault, I'd be reluctant to penalise them unless they're gaining an advantage.

PS. The 6-day questionnaire sent my spam/scam filters into overdrive.

[LostAgain]

[quote="Paul Frost
If anyone else asked for a punching start they had to provide a good reason, and this was recorded, so that controllers could check there was not abuse of the system.
[/quote]

Hi Paul, (thanks for your efforts and reasoned response) As stated, I'm not referring to helpers, for me all helpers can select their times in appreciation of the effort they have put in. Having in the past needed Parental Splits, I also appreciate the need for this.

I recognise it is a holiday event and therefore NC seems a little harsh. However, unfortunately there are a few where the "Competition" seems to cloud their judgement of fairness and they miss their start (particularly early ones) often with what seems a good reason to secure a more favourable start time and therefore potentially an improved result.

I omitted to say, superb 6 days, thoroughtly enjoyed it and sympathise with the Organisers/Helpers, particualrly when dealing with the idiots who refuse to abide by the request for the 1 way systems and the mental midgets who insist on leaving the Parking before 12.30 despite being asked not to.

[EddieH]

Before the introduction of electonic punching there was never any question of turning up late and getting a new start. You helped, had split starts, or could later argue genuine extenuating circumstances, but otherewise if you were late your start time was not adjusted. The Swiss still operate like this at O Week (except they don't even allow genuine organiser related extenuations )

I think what we used to do is what we should do now - to me it adds to the competition. In both Wales and the Lakes there has been a strong emphasis on it not really mattering if you make your start time which for me detracts from those events.

Also, a culture of ignoring your start times develops I can see a time when it becomes very hard to find start times in well subscribed courses - yet another organisational hassle we don't need.

[EddieH]

On a related theme, I have argued for years that organising clubs should be allocated their early start block on the day they are scheduled to help. Otherwise late helpers have to start very early on their help day AND again on their early allocation day. Two days starting first seems not just unfair, but also a poor reward for giving our time as frankly ploughing through undergrowth is far less enjoyable than not doing so.