Results and Rankings.

[mappingmum]

. . . the results usually had some planners comments to go with them - and often a word or two from the organiser and controller too. It's a shame becasue I think this adds to the whole event experience.

I agree. Some of the post holders reports are humourous and give a real insight into what it takes to stage an event. Plus it gives you some insight into the mindset of a planner/controller - info I always use to my competitive advantage.

[graeme]

Its a fair point - its up to the organiser who emailed me to invite me to enter
Almost all the competitors would have fallen foul of the embargo and "entering the competition area" rules.
I don't think I had any advantage as mapper. I did have a big advantage through living in Edinburgh and having run on the map several times, I didn't have to hesitate or look for dead ends.
Such advantage as I had was probably nullified by being a prerunner - I lost 30 sec on the first leg (everyone else just followed), and more time later reinstating a vandalised control and moving another one*.
Alison also caught me out with some of her brilliant and devious route choice legs.
I'm not interested in ranking points (onlooking ranking gods - feel free to chop me), and it wont affect anyone else, however Roger pointed out a high finish could affect the nopesport league M40 class, so he moved me to M21.

*Yet another crime - I knowingly moved it from the right place to the wrong place . The right place couldn't be reached without going onto the OOB grass. Did anyone notice?

[mappingmum]

. . . . . . reinstating a vandalised control and moving another one*.

I thought moving a control was a criminal offence

[DavidJ]

*Yet another crime - I knowingly moved it from the right place to the wrong place . The right place couldn't be reached without going onto the OOB grass. Did anyone notice?

How then did you get to the right place to move it to the wrong place without going OOB. Surely you should be disqualified for crossing the OOB

[distracted]

NeilC - my perception, if it's only a matter of ranking points and nothing more serious, is "who cares?"

We all know that the ranking system is never going to give a perfectly ordered list - there are too many differences and too much variability for that to be possible. It can however give a rough idea of relative ability, and so some will see it as a competitive incentive. I'd imagine very few will view it as a serious competition...

[Spookster]

As expected, the ranking list has updated this morning (it updates each Thursday, by including new events submitted, and removes the ones over 12 months old).

Amongst the men Oli has leapt three places to 3rd, as a result of his win at the Northern Champs, while Oleg moves up one to 7th, after his win in Edinburgh. Top two are unaffected - still Speakey then Scott.

Pippa's win at the Northern Champs and her great run at Beeley the previous day sees her climb 6 places into 3rd. Grace and Rach also get into 5th and 6th respectively from results last weekend. Top two in the women's are also unaffected - Sarah still leads, with Cat Taylor 2nd.

[graeme]

if it's only a matter of ranking points and nothing more serious, is "who cares?"

But the ranking list has a habit of mission creep. Before long it will again get used for selection, then to tell people they can't enter races if they haven't done enough ranking events. It might even sensibly be used for handicap races, since whatever its faults, it is a much better indicator of ability than age!

[Mrs H]

Just one place ahead of Wendles - no pressure at Carlisle then

(what fun this combined list is - Wendles and are not even the same age class at present)

[andypat]

Its an interesting point about embargos and non-comp with respect to urban events.

Its clearly impossible to embargo Edinburgh, but equally clear that living in the event area might give one an advantage. I noticed at least two route choices on route gadget that I would never have noticed during the event that would have been more obvious to a local.

Its clear the planner cant compete competitively but the mapper? Provided hes not breaking any embargo why not. The first time you run in any area you are at a disadvantage to experienced orienteers who have run there before. Its not really that different.

As a realist (and a footie fan) I'm not sure why you shouldnt get an advantage on your "home "forest as it were. I think the embargo issue is more for the "purists" and urban events are a step away from that in any case.

Right Im off for a quick jog round Rannoch Forest (Not!)

[Becks]

while Oleg moves up one to 7th, after his win in Edinburgh.

While I dropped two places after my win, where I didn't score enough points to be one of my counting races! Boo! Or was I a person without a BOF number? How can I find out?

So is that a quality of field thing, or a winning by the skin of my teeth thing? I don't profess to understand this system at all (and now seem to be a special retard at navigating the BOF website to boot!) so no stats speak please!

I think the lack of an embargo is fine. There were a few moments when I could go, oh yes, just run to the XX place, but I think you also get stuck into your ways of moving round, and actually miss some better routes. And at the end of the day, you still have to get there - on those long legs it's running speed as much as anything (as Kirsten Maxwell showed me multiple times on Saturday!). So yup...just leave it as it is!

Edit: btw this is not griping about the rankings, just an attempt to get to understand them better.

[andy]

While I dropped two places after my win, where I didn't score enough points to be one of my counting races! Boo! Or was I a person without a BOF number? How can I find out?

So is that a quality of field thing, or a winning by the skin of my teeth thing? I don't profess to understand this system at all (and now seem to be a special retard at navigating the BOF website to boot!) so no stats speak please!

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/e ... eday=56751
you got 1173 points which isn't in your top scores

remember it's a ranking list vs everyone not just those in your sex/class so you probably got less points because, relatively speaking, you were further down the field than, say, winning W21L on its own course (note: this may be wrong, I don't do stats! and haven't read any of the discussions about it)

[EddieH]

If you want to increase your score Becks you'll just have to run short

In brief the fact that you won the ladies is irrelevant. Your score is calculated by comparing yourself with every ranked person on the course.

By opting to run against the top men you are almost bound not to score great points as the initial sores at the start of the new rankings are heavily biased towards people running shorter courses - thus the top men have relatively lower scores than they should so when you runa gainst them your score is brought down in line.

[NeilC]

if it's only a matter of ranking points and nothing more serious, is "who cares?"

But the ranking list has a habit of mission creep. Before long it will again get used for selection, then to tell people they can't enter races if they haven't done enough ranking events. It might even sensibly be used for handicap races, since whatever its faults, it is a much better indicator of ability than age!

The combined Sprint Championship event rules have been written on the basis that the combined ranking list will be used to seed runners from each age class to give as balanced heats as possible (although it will now be more difficult to do this in the combined 18/20/21 class because bottom year 18s are deemed too young to be ranked). As Graeme notes it won't be perfect but almost certainly better than any alternative method.

Finally don't underestimate how many non-nopesport contributing orienteers still use colour awards and ranking points as incentives. The system may not be perfect but should be seen to be fair.

[greywolf]

While I dropped two places after my win...

Becks, your two place drop was basically because Steve Barrett & Stuart Thomson both recorded a 6th ranking score and so leapt from 1000+ up to 135 & 194 respectively. Nothing you could have done about that! There are a few others with only 5 scores including Martin Bagness, Dave Rollins, Mhairi Mackenzie who will do the same if they get a 6th score.

More generally, the initial set up favoured those who normally run shorter courses (note, not specifically "S" courses), so e.g. in general W21 & M55 are currently over-ranked vis-a-vis M21 - i'd expect as the effect of this is gradually eroded the women and older vets near the top of the list will lose ground to the M21s. Certainly i see M21s i can't beat ranked below me, and women and older vets i can beat ranked above me...

[Adventure Racer]

Its clearly impossible to embargo Edinburgh, but equally clear that living in the event area might give one an advantage. I noticed at least two route choices on route gadget that I would never have noticed during the event that would have been more obvious to a local.

Or having lived in it, which rather puts paid to the idea of a time limited embargo. It's over 17 years since I lived in Cambridge, and over 10 since I've even visited, yet there were still points on the Cambridge map where I didn't have to think very hard about where I was going. As Becks says, there are also downsides to local knowledge making you complacent.