Area Sprint/Middle Champs

[Scott]

Curiously, it seems that in the BOF hierarchy the Scottish (& Welsh & Irish) champs, which are optional L1s, rank below the English Area champs which are automatically L1.

I thought that was because the SOA had explicitly stated that they didn't want the Scottish Champs to be L1? Although I can't remember where or when I heard that, so it might be wrong.

[awk]

Scottish Champs might be next – for us, because we’re in Scotland, but a quick look at the results shows that 90% of those attending were “locals”, which suggests that they’re not really that relevant for the rest of the world.....

I agree, if the area championships stay the same as they have been for the past few years, but the idea in their being designated L1 was to replace the National Events and form a national level series of their own.

I wonder if what we're starting to see is a splintering of the sport into, to some extent, greater specialisation/interest in different formats. I'm finding, for instance, that I'm only doing one or two terrain based events this autumn but, if colds etc hadn't clobbered me, the whole of the autumn was urban race focused. Equally, we would be much more likely to travel to,say, the Midland Sprints and Middle Championships than to the Midland Classic/Long. Others will have be inclined to exactly the opposite.

Probably a bit premature to say that, and I suspect that it's more about people looking for variety than for one format, but I think it's on the cards.

[graeme]

I wonder if what we're starting to see is a splintering of the sport into, to some extent, greater specialisation/interest in different formats.

"Splintering" is the right word: we're in danger of breaking the sport apart by creating so many niches for existing orienteers that none are really viable. I think middle and night are likely to remain niche. But I fear that these "as hard as you can make it" ISSOM races (sprint or urban) are unnecessarily creating a niche because there's no entry route other than via classic orienteering.

I think there's a market out there of people who are put off by rough terrain/undergrowth, but would be interested in navigation without nastiness. The natural combination for such people is urban/park/sprint, NOT forest-based middle (World Games-type middle might be OK).

[Gnitworp]

Combine Sprint with Classic/Long, e.g., JK /WMOC, and it's less likely to be 'niche'.

'Middle' tries too hard to give itself a separate identity from 'Classic', often to its detriment, e.g., too many short technically easier legs, i.e., a tendency to add controls simply to make it 'middle' rather than increase the technical difficulty and orienteering challenge, polarising rather than emancipating planning attitudes. I think many people see 'Middle' races as short, and therefore less worthwhile, 'Classic' races - less value for money and less worth travelling a long distance for.

[SeanC]

But I fear that these "as hard as you can make it" ISSOM races (sprint or urban) are unnecessarily creating a niche because there's no entry route other than via classic orienteering.

Are you saying that some beginners are put off by the complicated maps? I think that's true of classic orienteering too - all that detail that's only relevant to the harder courses can be intimidating.

SAXONS put on a street event with Maidstone Harriers a few weeks ago, about 30 of them did the street score with simple non ISSOM black and white maps, they absolutely loved it and are promising to come to other Kent Night Cup events. They only want to stay within a few miles of their club house as that's what they are used to for mid-week running, but they're promising to do two "forest" KNC events (Mote Park and Trosley Country Park). It will be interesting to see how they get on

I think in general niches are a good thing - it gives people with different requirements opportunities. In our area those that can only go midweek, those that want a pub/social or adventure racers do mid week night o, those that like local orienteering in easyish areas do Saturday orienteering or there is classic orienteering on a Sunday. And lots of people do all 3. I guess the danger is that too many niches done ineffectively satisfies no-one.

[awk]

But I fear that these "as hard as you can make it" ISSOM races (sprint or urban) are unnecessarily creating a niche because there's no entry route other than via classic orienteering.

I don't agree. At quite a lot of ISSOM based races, I've seen novices having a great time on the same courses as being run by the more experienced. A lot of the dificulty is created by the speed at which you do it; many (most? all?) of the courses are perfectly do-able by novices who will simply take a bit longer. Having said that, I see that some events are starting to include more beginner orientated courses.

'Middle' tries too hard to give itself a separate identity from 'Classic', often to its detriment, e.g., too many short technically easier legs, i.e., a tendency to add controls simply to make it 'middle' rather than increase the technical difficulty and orienteering challenge, polarising rather than emancipating planning attitudes.

You mean they don't include all those long boring legs that planners so often include at the longer distances, just because that's the style of long distance orienteering? There are a lot of people who actually prefer the middle distance style (especially older classes), but just don't know it as such!

Whatever, I don't think we've had anywhere near enough middle distance races to make this sort of judgement, and the ones that I've run in have generally been excellent, those short technically easier legs creating some of their own difficulties by requiring pace variation to tackle them optimally.

I agree that fewer people will travel longer distances for shortish races, but there are plenty who will if the event is sufficiently worthwhile - but then we're not wanting, or at least shouldn't be wanting, people to travel long distances to most of them, nor should we be wanting lots and lots of people at all races. A local sprint race attracting 50-70 people is plenty thank you!

[Gnitworp]

You mean they don't include all those long boring legs that planners so often include at the longer distances, just because that's the style of long distance orienteering?

Exactly - danger of a tendency to polarise at both 'extremes' so to speak, both Long and Middle, rather than sustained challenging technical orienteering throughout not hidebound by a perceived style or formula: orienteering that uses the area available to optimal effect.

[Roger]

At quite a lot of ISSOM based races, I've seen novices having a great time on the same courses as being run by the more experienced.

Agreed -- we had over 50 for an evening race around Didcot in July, the highest turnout in 10 years of our Summer Series. The field included a very quick visiting Finn, five current or former internationals (JWOC / WOC / World Students) and several novices (from running clubs and elsewhere), The novices all commented that it was great fun and they'd be back for another go; the internationals liked it too. Two loops catered for everyone, with courses of 2.0km, 2.8km and 4.8km on offer. One family failed to find one of the controls, tucked down an alleyway, but this didn't spoil their evening.

As awk says, one of the features of the urban races is that you nearly always can just follow line features to reach the controls.

[awk]

Exactly - danger of a tendency to polarise at both 'extremes' so to speak, both Long and Middle, rather than sustained challenging technical orienteering throughout not hidebound by a perceived style or formula: orienteering that uses the area available to optimal effect.

And there I think we're both agreed.

One of the great joys of having these different formats is that areas can now be bettered used. This year's British Middle Distance Champs is a case in point. Grace Dieu has been used over the years for regional and district events, but really came into its own when used for a middle distance race - one of the best races of the year, and definitely a case of format and area complementing each other perfectly. Some areas simply won't lend themselves to middle, but would be much better for one of the other formats. Some, of course, could be used for anything!

[Gnitworp]

Yes, good courses, and, with the removal of one or two controls, close to what I would have set anyway to get optimal sustained technical challenge on the area. I think the mindset that short legs 'equate' to 'middle' is a dangerous one however that could compromise course quality if overzealously applied. WOC Middle courses, with their greater distance and therefore greater scope for variety, seem, on the whole, less preoccupied with having many very short legs; there's usually at least one very long leg. Let 'Middle' Races be, as far as possible, off-track, counter-obvious-handrail, high-decision-density affairs on topographically detailed areas, nothing more.

[Adventure Racer]

Well, we changed our summer midweek events into sprint races, and saw a big leap in participation.

Something I'm a big fan of - most of our summer events I'd actually make an effort to go to aren't just the standard colour coded courses, but offer something different. Recent ones which spring to mind are a mass start pairs multi lap sprint round a park, and an event planned as two loops, a short "classic" style one going into the woods, followed by a "sprint" loop. Certainly I'd much rather do something a bit technically easier than get ripped to shreds in summer vegetation.

The issue as has been mentioned before is that a lot of the hardcore still prefer their traditional events and don't like doing something a bit different. What you have to do though is take a longer term approach - that hardcore is ageing, and if you want to recruit and retain, then you need to appeal to the younger generation, who I would expect to be a lot less resistant to new events and much more interested in something different (I'm hoping the stats bear this out!)

Then again I'm probably not the best person to comment on niches, being something of a night specialist

[DJM]

gnitworp said

WOC Middle courses, with their greater distance and therefore greater scope for variety, seem, on the whole, less preoccupied with having many very short legs; there's usually at least one very long leg

My view is that very few WOC middle races in recent years have met the Middle Distance criteria and that they should unfortunately not be held up as exemplars of this format ...

[distracted]

My view is that very few WOC middle races in recent years have met the Middle Distance criteria...

If all areas/courses fall into set "brackets" then the sport quickly become formulaic with no room for imagination or creativity. I think this can be especially true with these 'new' formats - and I'd argue that both the Clydach event and the British Middles (to a lesser extent) fell into this trap. Doing something like increasing control density doesn't necessarily increase technical challenge, often cannot use the physical nature of the terrain to it's optimum, and doesn't reward all-round technical skill if all you have is a 5k-long control pick. I've always found the most "technically" challenging aspect of any course to be variability - doing what the competitor is least expecting/least prepared for.

[Gnitworp]

My view is that very few WOC middle races in recent years have met the Middle Distance criteria and that they should unfortunately not be held up as exemplars of this format ...

Oh dear, if we can't get the 'format' right at this level then do we know where we're going with it? Maybe the planners thought they had a better 'format', and perhaps with good reason.

[King Penguin]

Someone said it earlier - surely the best approach is to play to the strengths of the area and not get bogged down in trying to shoehorn the event into a box with a particular label on it. Maybe we should use long/classic/middle/sprint as indications of length and not attach too many preconceptions about what that impies on planning style. Yes, I know there are official guidelines for WOC etc. but the vast majority of events are not WOC, and we'd still get a variety of planning styles and challenges across different events.