Results and Rankings.

[andy]

turns out it wasn't even registered (it was a completely separate event)

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/e ... rch=Search

hm, odd, it shows up in my list of events to do results for as a different event, but not on the events page...

[AlanB]

turns out it wasn't even registered (it was a completely separate event)

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/e ... rch=Search

hm, odd, it shows up in my list of events to do results for as a different event, but not on the events page...

But then it's showing as a local anyway in your tdl.

[andy]

PWT rankings now up (thanks to Mike Hamilton for helping to sort it so quickly)

[mike g]

Wish I'd gone to PWT for the ranking points. On the prologue 21 mins (ie more than 50% longer than GG) scored about 1200 points!

[andypat]

I'm guttted too. I'f I'd got the same time on the Friday as I did on the Sat morning I'd have got my highest ever points - I was too knackered on the afternoon for the final - bad planning on my part!

[Spookster]

I'm guttted too. I'f I'd got the same time on the Friday as I did on the Sat morning I'd have got my highest ever points - I was too knackered on the afternoon for the final - bad planning on my part!

Well, from the way the event was advertised, the people who ran on Saturday morning were running the same event, albeit a day later, and without the possibility of qualifying for the PWT Final. It was still a Regional Event and should get ranking points I think.

[greywolf]

Wish I'd gone to PWT for the ranking points. On the prologue 21 mins (ie more than 50% longer than GG) scored about 1200 points!

hahaha...and given that e.g. Dave Robertson took 20.43 (on the saturday) and Eddie Harwood 21.51 how long do you think you'd've taken then?

those who ran well scored well but it was hardly a points bonanza - a quick check suggests that for many in that time frame it's not in their top 6 events...

does demonstrate how amazingly fast GG was travelling tho...


PS Andy, not entirely sure what's happened, but was Jon Musgrave really born in 2001?

[andypat]

I'm guttted too. I'f I'd got the same time on the Friday as I did on the Sat morning I'd have got my highest ever points - I was too knackered on the afternoon for the final - bad planning on my part!

Well, from the way the event was advertised, the people who ran on Saturday morning were running the same event, albeit a day later, and without the possibility of qualifying for the PWT Final. It was still a Regional Event and should get ranking points I think.

Spookster - PWT was a great event -I have nothing but praise for the organisers. But your comment touches on my main (possibly only) gripe with the current 3 level system. Its that the level an event is registered isnt always obvious from the advertising. This isnt to suggest that anyone is trying to mislead potential competitors - more so that the system was flawed. Theres no way the Park "WORLD" Tour events (even the popular Sat am rerun) should possibly be able to be registered as a local event. Same goes for the recent St Andrews Urban event - I mean its part of a National League - how can it be a "local" event? Its just confusing for people and leads to unneccessary gripes about ranking points. I was one of those who disagreed with the proponents of a return to 4 levels, but if it fixes this issue I'm a happier orienteer.

[mike g]

hahaha...and given that e.g. Dave Robertson took 20.43 (on the saturday) and Eddie Harwood 21.51 how long do you think you'd've taken then?

20:51 I reckon

[Spookster]

Spookster - PWT was a great event -I have nothing but praise for the organisers. But your comment touches on my main (possibly only) gripe with the current 3 level system. Its that the level an event is registered isnt always obvious from the advertising. This isnt to suggest that anyone is trying to mislead potential competitors - more so that the system was flawed. Theres no way the Park "WORLD" Tour events (even the popular Sat am rerun) should possibly be able to be registered as a local event. Same goes for the recent St Andrews Urban event - I mean its part of a National League - how can it be a "local" event? Its just confusing for people and leads to unneccessary gripes about ranking points.

I agree, very strange for the St Andrews race to have been registered as a Local, given what a great event it evidently was, and it being part of a national series, attracting over 200 people.

The PWT races were registered as Regional (correctly IMO), except the Saturday morning event that perhaps wasn't even registered at all! Good job no stone arches got knocked down.

I was one of those who disagreed with the proponents of a return to 4 levels, but if it fixes this issue I'm a happier orienteer.

Whether there will be better use of the A/B/C/D levels in event advertising next year, we'll have to wait and see. You would certainly hope that no events registered as D are part of national or regional leagues.

[awk]

But your comment touches on my main (possibly only) gripe with the current 3 level system. Its that the level an event is registered isnt always obvious from the advertising. This isnt to suggest that anyone is trying to mislead potential competitors - more so that the system was flawed. .... I was one of those who disagreed with the proponents of a return to 4 levels, but if it fixes this issue I'm a happier orienteer.

I'm not certain why anybody should think the new 4-tier system should be any different to the old revised 3-tier system in this respect. The old level 3 equates almost exactly to the new level D. If the organisers wanted to register St Andrews as Level 3, what's to prevent them from registering a future equivalent race as Category D?

The only reason St Andrews was in a national competition was because an outside agency (Nopesport) wanted it to be. What's to prevent something similar happening in future, with Nopesort choosing races from Category D or C, neither of which are 'national' in nature? Nothing.

All it recognises is that one can get great races at any level - something that quite a few people here (particularly Scots!) have been proclaiming for years. To that extent, I'd have to disagree with Spookster's last sentence as things currently stand. If, of course, the categories had been defined by the level of competition then that might have been a different matter, but they are not.

I was sad to miss St Andrews - but I'd much rather travel to a top notch "local" race like that than many events that are likely to be slipped into Category B or even A. (But then, I think all this obsession of relating 'level' to the 'quality' of the race or event and trying to define what that quality is - a nebulous concept at the best of times - a complete waste of time).

[mharky]

Aye, agree with AWK.

English level A events often offer much worse orienteering than Scottish level D events. We have local events on Revack, Loch Vaa, Insriach etc. England has the JK on Star Posts and the SHI's on Slufters...

[andypat]

I'm not certain why anybody should think the new 4-tier system should be any different to the old revised 3-tier system in this respect. The old level 3 equates almost exactly to the new level D. If the organisers wanted to register St Andrews as Level 3, what's to prevent them from registering a future equivalent race as Category D?

I did say "if"! My hope would be that that sort of race sits nicely in Level C though. We did some genuine Level 3 Urban races over the Summer. Whatever you say about the St Andrews race it wasnt a local event by any definition.

The only reason St Andrews was in a national competition was because an outside agency (Nopesport) wanted it to be. What's to prevent something similar happening in future, with Nopesort choosing races from Category D or C, neither of which are 'national' in nature? Nothing.

The Nopesport guys are a flexibile bunch and clearly place good quality Orienteering above the normal boundaries ( see Purple Thistle etc). But theres a fair bit of competition to get events into the Nopesport league. If I was them I'd make it a criteria that the event is at least registered at the appropiate level.

All it recognises is that one can get great races at any level - something that quite a few people here (particularly Scots!) have been proclaiming for years. To that extent, I'd have to disagree with Spookster's last sentence as things currently stand. If, of course, the categories had been defined by the level of competition then that might have been a different matter, but they are not.

Of course you can - but the danger of putting on events at levels below they should realistically be is that you'll end up in competition with other similar events and you wont attract the competition your event deserves. In theory, the St Andrews urban event could have been "gazumped" if say, KFO fancied putting on a level 2 event that Saturday to take advantage of the SOL at Tentsmuir in their area.

I was sad to miss St Andrews - but I'd much rather travel to a top notch "local" race like that than many events that are likely to be slipped into Category B or even A. (But then, I think all this obsession of relating 'level' to the 'quality' of the race or event and trying to define what that quality is - a nebulous concept at the best of times - a complete waste of time).

But the overall point being St Andrews wasnt a "local" race in anything apart from its offical designation. It was a well advertised big event organised on a great map with good facilities and a large turnout. I'd be interested to hear (from Andy if he knows) what the reason was to make it level 3 rather than 2?

[awk]

Whatever you say about the St Andrews race it wasnt a local event by any definition.

Only by the fact that it was in Level 3, I agree.

But theres a fair bit of competition to get events into the Nopesport league. If I was them I'd make it a criteria that the event is at least registered at the appropiate level.

Why? (see below). Did it make any difference this year?

Of course you can - but the danger of putting on events at levels below they should realistically be is that you'll end up in competition with other similar events and you wont attract the competition your event deserves. In theory, the St Andrews urban event could have been "gazumped" if say, KFO fancied putting on a level 2 event that Saturday to take advantage of the SOL at Tentsmuir in their area.

That's up to the organisers. If they want to take that risk, why should anybody else prevent them?

But the overall point being St Andrews wasnt a "local" race in anything apart from its offical designation. It was a well advertised big event organised on a great map with good facilities and a large turnout.

That's why I put the word 'local' in quotes. Again, I'd say, so what? First of all it showed what a nonsense those sorts of labels are. It also showed that the category of the race doesn't matter - in spite of what some people were saying in the lead up to the AGM - it's what you do with the event that matters.

I'd agree that it would have been more logical for it to be Level 2, and for such a race to be at least a category C next year, but the fact is that the level didn't make a blind bit of difference to the event itself, and I can't see the point of worrying about it.

[andy]

just for clarity:

PWT Friday was L2
PWT Sat AM was L3 (I don't know why it isn't in the fixtures list but you can cleary see this on the image I linked from my own login) - it was an afterthought to allow those who couldn't make it on Friday to sample Graeme's lovely courses, the event itself was on the friday, I think it was a success - don't mar it by moaning about what level it was please.
PWT Sat PM was L2

hence no ranking points for Sat AM. different day, different organisation (to a certain extent)