World Schools 2009

[andy]

Goodbye then...

Hello and welcome to Nopesport.

This 'argument' is very old. Can we not just show some support for all the British juniors running this week, both Scottish and English?

There might be a mix up in the association naming that means the English team comes under the organisation 'British Schools Orienteering Association' and the Scottish team, well, doesn't. It's all very complicated but at least we're not Belgian as they have 3 teams. As far as I know there aren't even many links between the Scottish Schools and the SOA, so removing the SOA from BOF won't do much for the schools aspect of O in Scotland.

The british schools->english schools vs scottish schools is a very similar situation to the BOF->EOA vs SOA distinctinction. Could be done with all being sorted out.

The world schools is an excellent event and will give a lot of experience of major competitions to british juniors, the more people who get to go, the better really.

[Big Jon]

A good start would be to rename the "British Schools OA" as the "English Schools OA" - then it would do as it says on the tin!

[NoChipOnMyShoulder]

This 'argument' is very old. Can we not just show some support for all the British juniors running this week, both Scottish and English?

Exactly...

Good luck to all nations competing at the World Schools

Come on England

[awk]

A good start would be to rename the "British Schools OA" as the "English Schools OA" - then it would do as it says on the tin!

Except it IS British, not English. OK, so it sends an English team (which has included Welsh in the past), bu that's not its primary role. From my recollection (a few years ago now), the team was limited because of ISSF rules, not because of anything to do with the British side of things. Having said that, there really was only a problem in the early days, when there was not Scottish team going. Now there are both, it simply means that twice as many juniors get a chance to compete: got to be a good thing!

Having said that, given the educational differences, it would make sense to have ESOA and SSOA running in parallel - but would also need NISOA and WSOA as well. Viable?

[mharky]

Wales and Nireland have the same school system as England don't they? I certainly had exams under the Welsh Joint Examining Board.

[Scott]

Wales is pretty much the same (aside from all the Welsh), but I think the education system in Northern Ireland is significantly different.
Edit: And isn't there some funny rule about Northern Irish runners being able to run for the Republic if they're so inclined?

[Scott]

Having said that, given the educational differences, it would make sense to have ESOA and SSOA running in parallel - but would also need NISOA and WSOA as well.

Really? I could understand BSOA becoming ESOA (with a closer affiliation to EOC?), and maybe the need for an SSOA, but given the size Wales and NI it would make much more sense for the schools to be handled directly as part of WOA and NIOA rather than setting up separate organisations.

[mharky]

What about having a state schools team and a private schools team?

[madmike]

What about having a state schools team and a private schools team?

why?

[Scott]

What about having a state schools team and a private schools team?

It'd certainly be interesting to see which one had the most vociferous support on Nopesport...

[Big Jon]

Except it IS British, not English. OK, so it sends an English team (which has included Welsh in the past), bu that's not its primary role. From my recollection (a few years ago now), the team was limited because of ISSF rules, not because of anything to do with the British side of things. Having said that, there really was only a problem in the early days, when there was not Scottish team going. Now there are both, it simply means that twice as many juniors get a chance to compete: got to be a good thing!

Having said that, given the educational differences, it would make sense to have ESOA and SSOA running in parallel - but would also need NISOA and WSOA as well. Viable?

But Andy its not just that it sends an English team - the "British" Schools Championships is set up for schools in a totally different eduction system to the Scottish set-up (lower school, middle school etc). It isn't "British" Schools, because there isn't a "British" education system - understand that point and it might make things easier.

[Scott]

Do you have middle schools in Scotland? Because there are very, very few of them left in England, at least in the public sector. I get the impression that the relevant BSOC class is there to cater for private-sector "Prep" schools, which are proportionately just as common in Scotland as they are in England.

[kedge]

The Middle Schools/Prep Schools class at the British Schools Championships was established because otherwise, this type of school was disadvantaged.

Previously, you could either enter such a school in the Primary class, which allowed children up to Year 7 to compete, in order to include Scottish primary schools, and not count your Year 8 pupils, or enter the small secondary schools class, and exclude your children in Year 6 & below. Or you could enter your group as two separate schools to include everyone, which was just plain daft.

I remember trekking up from Dorset to Scotland with my school group in '96 and their losing the small schools championship class by a single point, partly because we couldn't include two very good Year 6 girls in the team. Even now, the memory still rankles.

Recent British Schools Champs have been down in the English Midlands or South and have attracted few Scottish schools, but this year it rotates to Northumberland and hopefully more Scots will venture across the border.

Meanwhile congratulations to all those, Scots or English, who did so well in Spain today. lets hope for more success during the rest of the week.

[awk]

It isn't "British" Schools, because there isn't a "British" education system - understand that point and it might make things easier.

I do, fully, which is why I went on to say what I did. My point was that currently it does, for better or worse, cover Britain with its variety of educational systems, which of course goes beyond just England and Scotland, with for instance children from all four countries eligible to compete in the events organised by BSOC. As far as I can see, the only 'English' thing BSOC does, is organise the English team for the World Schools.

As far as I can see, Scottish schools get the better of both worlds, being able to take advantage of both British and Scottish Schools associations. I'd be interested to know what advantages would be gained by changing.

[campervan]

I'm with BigJon on this one.
A post on how irritating it is that BoF refer to Scotland as a region rather than a Nation is beyond the scope of this forum ( but should be voiced somewhere, sometime.) Something is broke and it should be fixed.

In the meantime, I'm prepared to step over the differences and support and congratulate all the British weans in Spain.