Shocked

[deebee]

Fatboy
Interesting you compared Orienteering and Trailquests. We trailquested for two years, always (it became a point of honour with us) spoke to others we passed, and you could count on the fingers of two hands the number who deigned to acknowledge our existance. Except for fellow Orienteers who knew us - oh and the regular 'have you found the control, is it down hers, is that number six' brigade.

[SYO Member]

Calm down, surely this is the explanation. James said that he and Lisa were just running as a pair as opposed to doing specific shadowing so if they joined the crowd of 20 at the first control and the accident occurred 'about halfway through', most would have known by then that they were together. Consequently, there would be no point in 'are you OK?' being said by any of the 10 who were behind Lisa when the fall occurred because they knew James was on hand.

Like Seabird, I also think the concern of other runners for orienteers who have fallen has not changed over the years. People will usually say something if a fall looks serious, and true to form, when I had my worst ever o-injury after falling at Greno Woods last May which kept me out of action for 7 weeks, the only other runner who was nearby did say 'are you OK?'.

[openadventure]

SYO - maybe you are right, but with such a mob going from one control to another all at similar speeds I'm not sure it was that obvious.

Anyway I think my point has been made "what's more important the competition or the well being of those around you?"

For us the actions of others were in stark contrast to other events we compete in even if it was obvious we were travelling togther.

Have a good day...

It's raining in the Lakes, weekend must be nearly here.

[Kitch]

i've certainly stopped to tell kitch where he was when he loomed in front of me covered in blood but it obviously didn't do much good....

Ahhh

well rosco, I thank you

It wasn't that your explaination was poor - I'm sure you told me exactly where I was - but subsequent analysis of splits shows I had probably been unconsciouss at the bottom of a ravine for 10 minutes before stumbling out and in to your path.
I forgot where I was through concussion, I think time telescoped before I met Jon, as I seem to remember it felt like I met him just after you but I do recall that I looked at my watch and it was actually ages - probably -
By the time I spoke to Jon my brain was back on line - probably.

anyway once again - thanks

[Harley]

I have read this thread with interest and attempted to compare the experiences with my own. Without researching the topic I would have assumed that the level of unselfish assistance given was probably inversely proportional to the level of competetiveness of the participants. This was certainly the case in my previous sport of cycling where those involved in a race would attack at the first sight of blood or cries of pain, whereas the tourists would invariably stop and offer their own inner-tube, bike or blood transfusion, as appropriate (unless sprinting for a town /30mph sign).

However, perhaps it is the big fish / smallpond scenario which makes orienteering buck this trend. In fact I think I am probably guitly of this too, even though in orienteering terms I am a mere minnow.

Thus I feel compelled to bear my soul and publically admit to my own transgression. If I don't, then Lumpy is sure to tell you one day - she usually does.

Several years ago, hammering around a league event, I happened upon my own daughter standing sholess and in tears in a particularly muddy ditch, with Lumpy crouched next to her, up to her armpits in the gloop attempting to retrieve a new pair of Addidas Swoops.

What did I do? ... offer help, sympathy, or a shoulder to cry on?

Not a bit of it - with a shout of 'coming through!' I vaulted Lumpy and the ditch and, with barely a backward glance, disappeared onto my next control. Such behaviour is thouroughly unforgivable and I shalln't do it again - promise.

[fell]

in the old days a joke or two about the nasty climb or the weather was common place. I wouldn't expect such a thing from the elite, or in a big race,

I'm always amazed at the distancing the common orienteer creates with the elite.
so many times I've come into a checkpoint and quipped about the hills or ferocious vegetation to a middle aged competitor only to be greeted with stunned silence or an awkward giggle.

[T5]

A few years back I was leading the first leg of the Harvester B. Everyone behind saw me disappear over a hill, then piled over the hill to see me laying on the floor! I’d been busy reading my map and didn’t spot the change in gradient – I realised I was falling just as my head connected with the ground and I slid into a rock! Several people paused and asked if I was ok – I said “I don’t know, how do I look”? “A bit muddy but okay” I was told, so I picked myself up, brushed myself down, found my head torch 5m away and got on with the next 7k of the race, brushing away blood as I went (I couldn’t let the team down)!

I got some interesting looks as I came through the finish and was asked if I was okay – “a bit tired” I replied. It was only on the way back to my tent when I looked in a car wing-mirror I saw I had a long cut through my eyebrow, nose and lip!

I think people acknowledge we do a risky sport and if they see someone fall they realise it could just as easily be themselves so offer to help. 9 times out of 10 the “injured party” isn’t seriously hurt and picks themselves up and says they’re okay. So what do you have to lose by offering…?

[FatBoy]

so many times I've come into a checkpoint and quipped about the hills or ferocious vegetation to a middle aged competitor only to be greeted with stunned silence or an awkward giggle.

This is what I'm saying. It's not that all elite don't banter, just that I would respect their concentration and not initiate a conversation. I'm not saying banter doesn't happen out there, and that nobody stops for injuries, I'm just saying in my experience that orienteering has become overly competitve in the middle ranks (maybe I'm just uglier than I was 20 years ago and nobody wants to talk to me...). My personal contrast of doing more trailquests and adventure races in the last few years has been that these events are by far friendlier in the middle ranks, and particularly iniviting to the novice ranks. Something I think beginner orienteers don't find no matter how many people you put on registration to welcome them.

[EddieH]

Adventure races are long and therefore people travel slower and the navigation is generally less intense. It is hardly suprising that people are happier to talk.
Marathon runners talk during a race - do sprinters?

[Adventure Racer]

Probably much less to do with the distance (not that much difference physiologically between a proper classic length course and a short AR stage) than the concentration level. I'm certainly unlikely to want to talk when concentrating hard on a tricky night nav stage in an AR. Then again I'd be more inclined to chat when on an orienteering course (assuming not in oxygen debt at the time) we're it not that the impression I've got from middle aged competitors is that it's frowned upon.

Back to the original situation - at least for me it may depend upon how seriously I'm taking it. Expect me to vault over you if you fall over at the last event of the WNL if it's anything like this year. However I find it hard to believe I wouldn't stop at a Summer evening event, even if chasing the title at the end of season - seems really strange to me that nobody at all stopped. Do people really take these events that seriously?

[Neil M35]

BOF rules say

7.2 Conduct During The Event
7.2.1 It is the duty of competitors to give help to an injured competitor even if this means
abandoning their run.
7.2.2 Competitors shall not deliberately draw attention to themselves. Shouting and calling are
prohibited.
7.2.3 Competitors shall not collaborate in any way unless members of a pair or group competing
together.

so no chatting. And no shouting if you've injured yourself.

[awk]

Then again I'd be more inclined to chat when on an orienteering course (assuming not in oxygen debt at the time) we're it not that the impression I've got from middle aged competitors is that it's frowned upon.

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm usually working too hard and concentrating too hard to have time, energy or inclination to chat, and hate it when people talk to me in the forest. Personally, I prefer to leave the chatter for the assembly field.
An injury, however, is a different matter.

[Oldman]

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm usually working too hard and concentrating too hard to have time, energy or inclination to chat, and hate it when people talk to me in the forest. Personally, I prefer to leave the chatter for the assembly field.
An injury, however, is a different matter.

Agree with awk 100%.

[Tatty]

Had to retire at the BOK Trot today, badly pulled thight muscle, and ended up hobbling along the road to and from the Car Park. Withou exception , all the orienteer cars stopped and asked if I was alright and needed a lift back to the car park. Restores ones faith.

[Domhnull Mor]

Others may be able to confirm this story (one of many that can be quoted from over the years). However, this one was yesterday at the 10-Mila.

According to the papers here, Andreas Johansson, Haldens first leg runner, stopped to bind the wounded head of another runner. He is quoted as saying that he couldn't just run on and leave the guy. This meant he lost a load of time (hence the 95th position after the first leg) but they still went on to win.