Domestic race standards

[EddieH]

I fear you might both be right. However there are enough runners that ant the classic that it should be survive at least for a while yet. However they need to make the requirement known.

Another problem with the IOF is that as far as I can see there is no way of letting opinions be known. Yes you can talk to a rep, but unless they personally agree strongly that wll go nowhere. And the IOF magazine - who reads that?

[Pippa]

There is a similar feeling among the women that we lack race experience of WOC-length classic races.

One option is to race the men, but this has similar 'get out' clauses as to racing abroad. We need to get all the top women racing full classics together, and pushing each other forward. Only problem may be convincing enough women to take part in such races to make them as competitive as possible?

And I don't think people regard the 'long' as becoming less worthy. Everyone commented how technical this year's WOC classic was, with route choice on practically every leg. It is an amazing mental and physical challenge, which I definitely aspire to take on.

However, it is one thing to take part, and another to perform to the absolute best of your ability - and I think it takes of years of work to reach this stage. I imagine few people have the luxury of being able to dedicate the amount of time required, but for those who go for it, we need to provide them with the races and competition to get to the top.

Pippa

[Adventure Racer]

Maybe one thing to do is to seed runners in all events and set them off at 30 second intervals, best last. This would virtually guarantee developing what appears to be the very important skill in large international competitions of "working as a team" with other runners.

[graeme]

You might think that's funny,but...

In the mid-90s, the GB squad got the National event rules changed so they could do exactly this in a block in the middle of the 21E start (OK maybe 2 mins interval). This was rapidly followed by non-squaddies abandoning elite courses and the collapse of the National Event 21E class.

Graeme

[Kitch]

with proven causal link of course

[rascrutt]

Can we provide more challenging long courses at some events without investing too much extra effort in order to see what can be done? I recall a colour-coded INT event at Devilla Forest in Jan 2003 at which Dave Godfree linked up the controls that were already out in an imaginative way to produce a "Black" course of 10-11km. It worked really well and required one extra Master Map and another course entered into the SI software. The results are at http://www.interlopers.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

Okay, a small contrinution, but this could be taken further.

[seabird]

Black Course advertised at Aire District Event at Harden Moor and Bingley St Ives on 17 September.

It would be good to get a lot of takers, to encourage this development.

[plain lazy]

If you want to test yourself on a longer course then head up to Deeside for Sunday 22nd October where you can run a proper long-O over Glen Dye and Bogendreip (scene of this year's Scottish Champs and last years 6 Days)...

We are aiming to set a course of over 20km for the hardcore, and somewhere around 14 - 15km for those who want a test but not a heart attack.

More details will follow... Hope to see you there !

Ali.

[Doug T]

at jwoc this year the classic race was 12.6 km.it was tough!
the winner, anders skarholt, won it in 70mins and i was out for 96mins.
at the fcc final this year i was out for 61mins and oleg was fastest with a time of roughly 57.

as a selection race for jwoc and in theory the toughest domestic race for a junior in the year it fell a long way short.it should have been won in 75-80mins to really prepare the juniors for how hard jwoc classic is going to be.and to also give the selctors a better idea of what juniors are capable of doing well in the classic race.

in the years to come if i, and i think other brits, want to do well at jwoc then i think there needs to be a few tougher races through the season, one of these being the fcc final.and they would need to be races, not colour coded events because there is a difference between running a long course and racing a long course.
if there wasn't going to be any proper classic races i know i might be tempted to run up to 21l to get a glong race.iand thats something i don't really want to do because i enjoy racing at my age group.

[mharky]

Looks like we have an unofficial Scottish Ultra-Long championships, or shall we just call it a classic???

[Kitch]

Doug,

as a junior, I used to regularly race M21, including M21E, as did Dave Peel, Steve Palmer and Paul Hague. Do it.
If you all do it then you get to compete with your peers.
If everyone decides to do it then it becomes a proper race

I understand there is often pressure to compete in class from FCC - but if FCC cannot help you to prepare for International competition then it is self defeating - it is not going to help you be a "future champion". Lobby for proper length courses, do what you need to do.

The point about adding a loop onto a basic course is a good one and need not require excessive extra work.

Eg and a colour coded (or whatever they are called) if the planner can keep Brown and Green largely from using the same controls and similar legs then the two loops can create a Black
At a bage (or whatever) M21L and W21S make M21E

[Lard]

A real classic race.

We have already made headway - the FC Final will be planned to a longer winning time next year (I can't remember what right now tho).

It's not like athletes need to do Black or M/W21E length courses every weekend (you can't RACE these every weekend and train properly) - just perhaps 3-4 races of suitable JWOC Classic length (70 min for the women and 80 mins for the men?) through the season will suffice, do you agree?

So, FCC final - tick
JK Day 2 - we are discussing with the organisers
Plus race 3
Plus race 4

The GB Junior Squad will be discussing over the next month which two weekends are suitable for race 3 and race 4 - we will urge all athletes to race a certain course (might be M21L might be M21 E or we might be able to persuade an organiser to plan the required length on M/W 20).

To have a proper weekend there should ideally be a middle/short/sprint race also on the Saturday which all athletes should also take part in.

It is hoped we can arrange these races using the available calender of events rather than create new ones.

Let me know if this is agreable.

Lard

[Lard]

Sorry, I apologise - my last email is very selfish and only focuses on juniors at JWOC potential stage, it does nothing to help seniors.

Jase being selfish again, sorry.

[DIDSCO]

While it can definatly be a good idea for juniors to run the senior elite classes to help prepare for future internationals, the most important factor for a junior performing well internationally is a very good technique which works well under pressure.

This years results from JWOC were a total disaster, and perhaps the worst yet. I feel the main reason for this was probably down to poor technique and thus mistakes, and as we all know when you start making mistakes your physical performance level decreases as well.

I know from my own experience that bad mistakes cost me good runs at JWOC. I thought at the time I had a good technique. I was totally wrong.

British juniors need to start aiming for total perfection in their technique to be able to race well internationally. Its no good doing all the physical training when your technique can't match your fitness.

[Gross]

It'll be the same for the seniors in Kyiv next year. They will need to have the techniques in place to run at sub 4.5 mins / km as well as the physical ability to run that fast......