Club Eligibility

[JackTheLad]

Hocolite wrote:

Sorry mate but the rules were followed if you consult the PP rules if you are a club member of a second club which the lads are and have been all year you can run but you need to ask permission of the first club.

Where exactly can I find this rule - I've looked in the BOF Rules 2003 and Peter Palmer Guidelines 2005 and can't find it in either. Can someone enlighten me?

[HOCOLITE]

Jack I've looked now and cannot find the document I read in September. Maybe it was the entry form. It clearly said that a junior was eligible to run for a club if they were club only members and if this was their second club they needed to seek permission from their bof registered club to compete. In our case this was done as the club could not get a team and in fact the previous year had combined with our club to make up a non comp team (effectively a third team for our club). We always attempt to get at least two teams out as we treat this as a great social event for juniors and believe that participation is the key. Whenever there has been a possibility of an action being contensious we have always consulted a BOF official usually a member of junior competitions committee before entering the team, this was certainly done this year.

I'm sorry I can't direct you to the sentence I really don't think I was dreaming but I may have read it in YBT which has occurred subsequently

[King Penguin]

.. and the CompassSport rules cleary state you cannot represent two clubs in one year and explicitly that you cannot run for one club in the Trophy and another in the Cup. There is no get-out clause saying it's OK if you get the approval of the club you ran for in the first round.
I suspect slightly different wording and rules for the different competitions (whether accidental or intentional I don't know). N.B. one important difference is that CSC/CST is a 2-round competition whilst PP is a single round. As CST/CSC round 1 and final are so far apart this does raise a specific issue regarding those who start university in between.

[Guest]

I would be interested to know if the Peter Palmer rule Hocolite is refering to is acceptable to everyone. In our region a number of clubs cannot raise a team for a variety of reasons. As she says it is a good social occasion for the youngsters and it seems a shame to exclude those whoose clubs cannot get a team together.

If they could all join one club as club only members then they could all join in the fun. I have always thought that this contravened the rules so non competitive teams were formed. Now these are not always acceptable. If HOC are putting together teams with entrants from a variety of clubs then it should be made common knowledge so others can do it too. I don't want to be accused of breaking the rules so if there are unwritten ones I would like to know about them.

Sorry forgot to login Jude

[Jude]

Logged in now!

Back to the subject of CS Cup final. Were the vast numbers on the Women's Green and Orange expected?

The numbers were very similar to those on the Brown, but because of scoring system many on the Women's Green and Orange failed to score points, but all on the Brown did.

This is not a complaint just an observation. I think the new scoring system is far more inclusive than the previous more rigid one, but was wondering if it should be opened up more so all courses carried the same weighting?

[HOCOLITE]

Jude you imply we got juniors to join the club. That is not the case. The family joined at the beginning of the year and as far as I am aware were not actively courted. We consulted with officials about the situation as we could run a variety of different combinations but obviously wanted to run the strongest,which as it happens we couldn't due to injury. When we ran a joint team with COBOC it was non comp, we had to run an adult one year again non comp to make up the nos as there were no spare runners at the event.

If you have small clubs in the region they can join together if they are adjacent or something. Unfortunately COBOC has no adjacent small club and have insufficient juniors who would travel to a PP.

[Guest]

> If you have small clubs in the region they can > join together if they are adjacent or something.
> Unfortunately COBOC has no adjacent small club and
> have insufficient juniors who would travel to a PP.

From the PP Guideline:
1.3.2 Combined teams can only be made up from two ‘small’ clubs that are either from the same association or geographically immediately adjacent.

Scope perhaps for COBOC to join forces with either Wrekin or POTOC !

[Tatty]

In our region we have the problem that some clubs do put out a team, so ones that need to join up to get enough runners have no one to join with!! What is the solution?

[seabird]

In our region we have the problem that some clubs do put out a team, so ones that need to join up to get enough runners have no one to join with!! What is the solution?

Yes we had that problem the other way round this year. 10 runners committed to go but unable to find the last two females for the second team - so only one team was entered, and because it was some of the stars who were slow to commit to the event, in fairness to the young people who had shown the greatest commitment, we went with a weakened team.

The ability to have a second team combined with another local club would have been a good solution.

[ifititches]

Just to put the record straight about the 2004 PP relays and the HOC teams!

If you're desperate to double check this look at
http://www.oaklodgeservices.co.uk/peter ... esults.htm

COBOC had THEIR OWN 1st team running, but had 2 extra runners without a team, who were experienced/old enough to run night legs. HOC had enough runners for three teams, but not wih enough night or "above yellow" experience to make up a third "HOC only, competitive team " without putting runners on courses that were above their experience.

The organisers (COBOC) had put in the details that they were happy to facilitate the forming of ad hoc non-comp teams so.......
the two competitive HOC teams ran extra HOC runners on the yellow courses, COBOC ran their 1st team as planned, AND an ad hoc (non-comp) team was formed with 3 HOC, 2 COBOC and 1 WRE member.
Everyone got a run and a great time was had by all.

[ifititches]

oh, and especially for the eyes of Marcus from Ireland (see banter), EVERYONE's names appeared in the results

[Guest]

Just to put the record straight about the 2004 PP relays and the HOC teams!

I got the impression that the discussion was about the 2005 race.

[ifititches]

the discussion, especially the bit between Jude and Hocolite, was encompassing both 2004 and 2005. The joint team with COBOC /HOC/WRE was in 2004. In 2005 the HOC team ran with a newish HOC member who had previously run for COBOC, and this was cleared as being OK.
There seemed to have been a suggestion too that COBOC should have teamed up with WRE or POTOC if their members wanted a run, but in fact in 2004 they had enough juniors for a COBOC team anyway

Sorry if sounded pedantic, but to me, as HOC insider, it appeared the issues were getting blurred, (even more so as it was also in a Compass Sport cup thread!)

As you might have guessed I think the most important thing is that juniors get out there, enjoy the sport and keep coming back...

[NeilC]

Sorry if sounded pedantic, but to me, as HOC insider, it appeared the issues were getting blurred

I agree the issues did seem to be getting blurred. The central issue as I see it is:
Can a junior who is registered with BOF as being a member of one open club then run in a competitive team for another (large) open club if he or she is a club only member of that second club?

When my junior team manager asked me that same question this summer my interpretation of the rules was that the answer was no. From reading this thread I don't think I was the only one to interpret it in that way. However it appears that at least one club (your own) received guidance to the contrary. I think it would be useful to know where this guidance came for so that it could be made much clearer next year.

I also agree that the most important thing is to get juniors out there and enjoying themselves - however there are tophies at stake and teams will want to be assured that they are all competing under the same rules.

[HOCOLITE]

Neil
Sorry to bring this up as I've bitten back a few times but it's all the rules and that means runners being M/W12 plus.I know that that they weren't all this year, and I know in the past your club has run M10's. As I stated before I consulted with a member of the junior competitions committee, in the past and this year the individual(s) concerned did the contacting. Our juniors are now old enough that they do most of the organisation and sorting out we're just the drivers and there to offer support. I agree that the open /closed/ affiliated and second club membership situations need to be revisited for all the team competitions.