Membership Proposals - Back to the Future

[graeme]

Dont think this is a secret...

BOF wrote to SOA executive to ask if anyone could go - we can nominate anyone we like. At less than two weeks notice nobody wanted to go.

Does anyone fancy a free trip to England on behalf of SOA? I'm not promising, but I am serious and you will be properly briefed.

SOA has the usual concern that a UK wide tax will be levied for BOF to work on English RDO development, while we have to raise our own additional levy (up again this year) to work on Scottish RDO development.

Of course, we only get one vote...

Graeme

[John Morris]

Graeme wrote:-

SOA has the usual concern that a UK wide tax will be levied for BOF to work on English RDO development, while we have to raise our own additional levy (up again this year) to work on Scottish RDO development.

Of course, we only get one vote...

My guess is that you'll get at least two votes, as Phil Jenkins of WOA has noticed the same ... anomaly. And I'm sure you'll be bumping into NIOA in the next few days...

If the version presented on May 7th follows the same structure as the April 13th draft, you'll see that the hypothecated RDO support levy is clearly distinguished from the general levy. It should not be difficult to arrange for it to be chargeable (say) only within the English border.

I don't want to deprive some lucky Scot of the fun of a Saturday spent getting into and out of Birmingham, but have you considered (a) asking an expatriate to represent (and report back to) you or (b) making a written submission?

I would have thought a written submission (or submissions) on behalf of the Celtic fringe would be perfectly reasonable. And since there will be less than twenty invitees, you can reasonably ask BOF Central for a list of their email addresses so that you can brief them before the meeting.

I'm assuming that you have been given a copy of the paper to work on. If you, or any other invitees, haven't received it yet, then I strongly recommend asking Ranald, Robin and Alex to email it to you email-haste. I can't think of a better way of wasting the five hours allocated to the meeting than going unprepared.

If all else fails, contact one of the recipients of the April 13th draft and get a copy from them... I was going to copy the recipient list from the original email, but I'm not sure that the DP Act allows me to do that... anybody know the answer So, if in doubt/need, ask me - but do it before Friday 29th because I'm off to Italy for a week.

[freaky_phil]

How can any self-respecting member of Council approve a proposal on one of the most fundamental elements of BOF's being, which will have barely been drafted 7 days beforehand,

says AWK. I agree entirely and I will be at the Council meeting to adopt/approve the proposal for it to be put forward to the EGM. But not being able to consult with any of my Executive commitee/Club Chair's etc on the outcome of the 7th May meeting before the meeting on the 14th May I am struggling to think of how to vote (I assume it will go to that) for the proposal to go any further. It should also be noted that it was conveyed to me by BOF that the current proposal would be on their website on the 19th April, I have had a look but cannot find it (I have my own copy obviously!)

[Simon]

Normal postal/proxy voting rules will apply. I will personally propose that proxies be polled; can I have three volunteers to back that call, please?

At any General Meeting, the election of Officers, other persons to be elected as Councillors under the terms of Article 13(1)(c), and Honorary Members, except where no valid nomination has been received for a particular post, shall be decided by a poll and by votes at the General Meeting. A resolution put to the vote of the meeting shall be decided on a show of hands unless before or on the declaration of the result of the show of hands a poll is demanded. Unless a poll is taken, the declaration by the chairman of the Meeting of the result of a show of hands shall be final. In the case of an equality of votes whether on a show of hands or on a poll the chairman of the Meeting shall be entitled to a second and casting vote.

A poll may be demanded by the chairman of the Meeting or by at least three Members present in person or by proxy. A demand for a poll may be withdrawn.

(The BOF Articles are available from the link on this page)

My reading of that is that only three people are needed to call for the poll and they could all be proxy votes. Based on likely events to be used to add the EGM onto I am probably not going to be able to attend. However, I will be voting via proxy and as part of my proxy vote I will be asking for the vote to go to a poll.

[distracted]

The latest proposals from BOF are now available

http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/D ... pril05.pdf

Why they aren't calling this a "funding proposal" I don't know, as it obviously has nothing to do with membership numbers and everything to do with money...

[brooner]

erm is this not a bit confusing, the fact that they will be discussed and refined on the 17th, and then discussed a few days previously... is that meant to be the 24th then?

Management Comittee has decided to publish details of the latest membership proposal. This proposal will be discussed and refined at a workshop on 17th May. It will then be discussed at Council on 14th May, who will consider putting forward a proposal to an EGM in the autumn.

Please contact your Association Representative at Council with any views by 12th May.

[Simon]

Brooner - no. The 17th should be the 7th

We now want to consolidate the ideas at a workshop to be held on 7 May 2005 so that the findings can be discussed at Council the following weekend. But first let us have a look where we are now.

[brooner]

ah well, as long as theres no confusion...

[Mrs H.]

It seems to me one of the biggest changes is the ending of the levy waiver on introductory/series/training events - I guess like the NGOC mini-league etc (4 courses or less) and our own smile events and Summer Evening events - as we only charge £1 for as many courses as you can run - it's going to run at an enormous loss/ a big price rise/or not at all!

[distracted]

It seems to me one of the biggest changes is the ending of the levy waiver on introductory/series/training events - I guess like the NGOC mini-league etc (4 courses or less) and our own smile events and Summer Evening events - as we only charge £1 for as many courses as you can run - it's going to run at an enormous loss/ a big price rise/or not at all!

Same with the TVOC summer series - those low key evening events are great for introducing people to the sport and are simple to organise and plan. This would add unecessary complications of levies, especially with BOF/non-BOF members being levied different amounts etc Potential organisers may be put off, and charging perhaps £3 per event rather than £1 it is now is a big rise.

Does "training events" mean a day's training on a local area as a club, or a low key event anyone could join in?

[CHS]

Are training events open? If they are not then the Junior Squads are bound to be affected as they run a lot of training throughout the year.

[graeme]

and charging perhaps £3 per event rather than £1 it is now is a big rise.

£4 - you forgot the "development levy". But it seems to be saying BOF members pay half and you can keep half the non-members fee anyway. So if your club needs a pound, you need charge only £2:50:
For BOF members thats £1 entry + £1:50 levy, while for non-BOF its -50p entry + £3 levy.

Negative entry fees may seem odd, but then, with phrases like "discounted rate for non-members" who really knows?

According to the strategic plan that will pay for the English, Welsh and Irish RDOs. Look out for new membership/levy proposals from the SOA to pay for ours

Graeme

[awk]

I have to say, I think the proposal to charge seniors (even BOF members) a minimum of £1.50 on the smallest local event (apparently including even training events) totally unacceptable. As far as I can work out the non-BOF member, the very person who many of these events will be aimed at, is going to be charged £3 by BOF for running before the club is even able to think about the actual cost of putting the event on. I may have read this wrongly, and really hope so, but if not, it appears to me that BOF central has completely lost the plot.

I was also intrigued by the list of benefits. Many of them really don't stand up to much scrutiny, and certainly don't justify the hikes in income that BOF are trying to generate - they would all exist/thrive without that increase, and most would be there even if there was a substantial decrease in income. One or two are of absolutely no relevance to the average BOF member.

At the end of the day, it appears from the paper that these increases are because BOF wants to up the hours of the regional development officers. Whilst I'm all for development, BOF has still not successfully argued the case for expenditure in this way. Until they do, then there is no case for increasing fees, particularly the swingeing increases on local orienteering, without which orienteering will almost certainly collapse long term.

[freaky_phil]

According to the strategic plan that will pay for the English, Welsh and Irish RDOs. Look out for new membership/levy proposals from the SOA to pay for ours

hey Graeme where does it say Welsh and Irish RDO's in the document, the document relates to the £40K for the current RDO's, that's the ENGLISH ones, but the document is missing the word ENGLISH (now I wonder why that is ?). The levy will go to pay for their extra 1 day a week as per the Strategic plan. The boys across the border are revolting bring on devolution. I am going to enjoy running in Pembrey so my £1.00 will go to the salary of the RDO in Hull or Leeds, s*d that for a game of soldiers!!

[RJ]

Generating levy income from the C5 level of event.......

Many clubs run these low key sets of events, basically for club members and as an introductory event structure for new potential members. Ours are very informal, organised by one person, and attract ~50 competitors. We make a surplus while charging £1.50/50p. Do they really need to be as cheap as that? You can't do anything else these days for that sort of charge.

Now... is it unreasonable to be charging double that so that the sport's governance has an income too! I think it would be fair to generate some income here, to cover more than just the cost of insurance. Perhaps a flat rate fee would be best, say £25??

Orienteering, once you get out of your car at assembly, is very cheap. Yes, families find it expensive, but they are going to find whatever sport/activity they do... expensive. It costs a fortune to get to the event.... It costs me £1 in shoes every time I run.... The only bit we have any direct control over is the entry fee... Gordon Brown isn't going to reduce the cost of my petrol!!!!

Should the sport spend such a lot of money on RDOs. They are a good idea, but is it the best route to development of the sport. After all, everything that the sport does is staged by the clubs. Events and competition only come about through the efforts of people in clubs. If we could only find a way of showing all clubs how a particular model was working with one or more clubs, then that success could be spread. The apparent spread of good practice ideas is indeed very slow.