Reflective strips on control markers

[yted]

I'm with Buzz.... it's the feature that has to be clear and easy to see not the kite. Well-mapped clear features equal fairness.

[buzz]

Seems to me the "lets make night-O a game of hunt-the-hidden faded orange flags among dead bracken..." view is still strong.
Reflectors level-up head-torch brightness - even a small torch gets a reflection whereas a powerful torch will show everything far more clearly around the control site if the flag is not reflective.
Lets make night-O fairer may planning good courses, hanging controls carefully, ie far side of features so not visible from approach line etc (same as in day-O) and not dive down rabbit holes of hidden, semi-visible controls.

Not sure reflectors level things up - they're far more visible with powerful head torches especially the new-style super reflective flags that have appeared in recent years.

I agree that good planning and positioning of flags is crucial day and night, but some of the planners I spoke to weren't aware that some control flags had reflectors which were spoiling their courses - hence the post.

[DaveR]

Not sure reflectors level things up - they're far more visible with powerful head torches especially the new-style super reflective flags that have appeared in recent years.

True, but even a weedy headlamp will pick up a reflective at, say, 30m. The fact that a powerful headlamp will pick it up at a much greater distance shouldn't really be any advantage.
A weedy headlamp will make it much harder to pick up a non-reflective flag at 30m, so I'd still argue that reflectives make control finding fairer.

The main thing is that...

.....good planning and positioning of flags is crucial day and night, but some of the planners I spoke to weren't aware that some control flags had reflectors which were spoiling their courses - hence the post.

[buzz]

There seems to be a Scotland / Yorkshire divide in preference. I'm thinking that maybe the new-style kites haven't found their way to Scotland yet?

Retro-reflective materials are designed to shine as much light as possible back in the direction of the source - so its like someone standing there shining a light back in your eyes - not the same as a bit of shiny tape which just makes it easier to spot the flag once you're in the vicinity.

Having said that, maybe, if you're not colour blind, orange controls stand out like beacons in the day so most people are used to navigating to the kite rather than the feature.

[Homer]

I tend to agree with Buzz that the new highly reflective control markers are somewhat OTT. At least at Scholes Coppice last night they had been used for all controls so that you got used to what to expect. A mix of old dirty non-reflective flags and new highly reflective would be worst of all worlds.
Maybe I'd think differently in a proper Scottish forest.

Having said that, maybe, if you're not colour blind, orange controls stand out like beacons in the day so most people are used to navigating to the kite rather than the feature.

Unfortunately not Buzz

[Big Jon]

In Deeside we use reflectors bought from Sweden - toilet roll holder size, relative blue/white/red tape. Easy to carry 20-25 in a bum bag.
Maybe its a difference in forests - we tend to have plenty of good contour features to use for control sites rather than point features?

[Homer]

Yes, we're definitely not used to navigating by contours in the dark here in England. It's generally around paths to the nearest attackpoint then head in to the forest. With the new controls, just look up and there it is...

BNOC will be a different challenge. Looking forward to it with some trepidation.

[buzz]

I thought the planner at controller at Scholes Coppice (Northern Nights) did a valiant job of trying to position the controls so they didn't spoil the technical challenge - in the bell pit area it was easy but elewhere it was more difficult. Apparently their preferences would have been to use ordinary markers but they didn't have enough clean/newish flags without reflectors so they decided go with reflectors. Sounds like SYO need to invest in a new set of plain markers for night events.

[Jon X]

I thought I would just loop back to this after the British Nights at the weekend.

The controls there used non-reflective stakes and non-reflective flags, but the flags were almost-new so not suffering from the camouflage effect that can arise with some older flags!

I thought this worked well. Controls were clear and visible once you were in the correct place, but not beacon-like from a distance.

[yted]

Agreed... indeed the whole event was superb!

[IanD]

Agreed... indeed the whole event was superb!

Seconded. Fab event.
And I had no trouble finding the controls when I was in the right place ... problem was, I wasn't always in the right place.

[Homer]

Thirded.

Likewise I was often nowhere near the correct place. My earlier trepidation was well founded. I definitely need more practice if I want to succeed at night O...

[Atomic]

Agreed... indeed the whole event was superb!

The bussing in and out etc must have cost a fortune. Suspect we might see more of that in the future if we want to get to the best areas and help those without cars access the sport.

[King Penguin]

I agree, a great well-run event with a good course.
I still can't work out how I got virtually to the centre of the circle for #2 (according to gps) and failed to see the control, running off for 3.5 mins and coming back from a different direction, but that's my mistake and nothing to do with the map, planning or control placement. Also a pity I did a 180 elsewhere; must be the first time for a decade or so.

[xxx]

Agreed... indeed the whole event was superb!

The bussing in and out etc must have cost a fortune. Suspect we might see more of that in the future if we want to get to the best areas and help those without cars access the sport.

The ability to get to these 2 FVO events by public/provided transport was the deciding factor for me in attending the weekend. Train all the way from home to London to Stirling; bus or walk to Park and Ride; shuttle to event with a large marquee
to change and leave coats etc, all made the logistics easy. The only potential break in the chain was that buses had stopped running from the P & R when I arrived back about 8 pm but I was easily able to get a taxi back to Stirling (£6.90).
Plean on Sunday was served by a regular bus service with the stop being only I km from the event; closer than the car park.
It would be fantastic if more events could be made so easily accessible for those not able/willing to drive. I know it's often not really feasible, but I for one was extremely grateful to FVO for the superb organisation which enabled this elderly, (mostly) non-driver to experience such a high quality and challenging event.