Does anyone know what you win in the short courses at oringen that makes it worth it? I see you get money if you're elite but the stuff I can see is vague about prizes for other classes. Is it just a kudos thing? That seems odd as he will know it's all a sham. If he's done it for a few years it sounds as though it's turned in to a game for him.
I'm surprised he managed to get that many late starts as they usually stagger starts at multiday events.
cheating at oringen.....
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
Sounds like a rehash of "Murder at the Last Control"!
- Tatty
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
frog wrote:I'm surprised he managed to get that many late starts as they usually stagger starts at multiday events.
For short courses you can start when you like every day except the last one which has a chasing start.
I ran H45K a couple of years ago, and started each day more or less at the same time as the rest of the family on their proper courses.
- frostbite
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
But it's only been like that for a few years. You used to get assigned starts on k courses I remember once having to get up at about 5am to get to my start on time.
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Mrs H - god
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
mikey wrote:baronmax wrote:I heard that the the cheater won the M55S for the past 10 years... (although I haven't had a chance to check this)
- with the same technique perhaps?
He'd been an M55 for 10 years. Blimey!
Well... if you're cheatin'....
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baronmax - off string
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
easternmost? wrote:This reminds me of a theoretical way to cheat that someone described to me in the late 80’s before electronic punching.
You get an early start and set off at a brisk walking pace and punch your control card until you get within a couple of controls of the finish. You then find a bush to hide in somewhere away from sight, leave your bag and control card and change out of the disguise. Next you start your official run as normal but make your way back to your den. Here, using a full set of pin punches concealed in your bag you mark your fresh control card with the correct patterns, copied from the card from the first run. Then, having allowed enough time, emerge again punch the last couple of controls and finish in a fast but credible time.
Surely you took and puched both cards on your first 'run'? I can't remember what card checks there were (if any) at the start. In which case you had a spare control card / 3rd entry, which you never started.
- cbg
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
There was a runner in the NE, a couple of years ago, who won(?) or got a very high placing in a large event (10km? half marathon?) in the Kielder area. He had had enough part of the way round, so retired, and then took a bus back to the finish, got off with several hundred metres to go, and sprinted to the line to great acclaim.... to begin with! He was sussed by other finishers who had no recollection of him being in front. He was seriously shamed in a TV report.... and I doubt he ever ran again.
Cheats just need to be named and shamed!
The Russian swimmer was booed by the Brazilian crowd at the Olympics when (s)he was introduced before the race. Spot on! A brilliant precedent!
Cheats just need to be named and shamed!
The Russian swimmer was booed by the Brazilian crowd at the Olympics when (s)he was introduced before the race. Spot on! A brilliant precedent!
- RJ
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
Cheating in sport is quite an interesting area.
I googled a few articles, I thought this one was interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... -cheaters/
I'll select out the bit that summarises the argument
To me would suggest penalties for cheating should be harsh, since this type of cheater is not likely to respond to reason, and the cheating is likely to have a corrupting effect on sport.
Similarly we can expect others to try the same trick, so rules or technology might need to be looked at to prevent the same thing happening again.
I googled a few articles, I thought this one was interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... -cheaters/
I'll select out the bit that summarises the argument
"This, Schurr explains, adds a telling caveat to his theory. The problem, he says, seems to be a very specific type of success: the kind that involves social comparison, the sort that means doing better than others, instead of just doing well. And he believes it all boils down to a sense of entitlement that beating others in sports, business, politics, or any other form of head-to-head competition seems to foster in victors.
"Dishonesty is a pretty complex phenomenon — there are all sorts of mechanisms behind it," said Schurr. "But people who win competitions feel more entitled, and that feeling of entitlement is what predicts dishonesty."
Once a winner, always a winner
In other words, when people win against others, they tend to think they're better, or more deserving. And that thinking helps them justify cheating, since, after all, they're the rightful heir to whatever throne is next — "If I'm better than you, I might as well make sure I win, because I deserve to anyway."
And this problem can have a compounding effect, because cheaters, research has shown, tend to win more often. The self-perpetuating cycle looks something like this, according to Schurr: The more people win, the more likely they are to cheat; and the more they cheat, the more likely they are to win."
To me would suggest penalties for cheating should be harsh, since this type of cheater is not likely to respond to reason, and the cheating is likely to have a corrupting effect on sport.
Similarly we can expect others to try the same trick, so rules or technology might need to be looked at to prevent the same thing happening again.
- SeanC
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
This reminds me of a theoretical way
At one point there were rumours going around that it wasn't theoretical......
- Tim
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
In the UK I recall we had our own bete noire at the start of the 1980s. An M35 who had a string of results good enough to bring them to the selectors attention. Not sure how it ended, but they stopped appearing in results!
- maprun
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
maprun wrote:An M35 who had a string of results good enough to bring them to the selectors attention.
Same guy as I mentioned in the Scottish Score. Without mentioning names it was similar to a West of Scotland bus company...... Queue andypat to list all the Glaswegian bus firms
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
Sean C's post explains why people like me who don't win much are baffled by the efforts this guy has gone to to win a middle aged man short course. Although given our demographic the middle aged man courses tend to be the most competitive.
I'm now trying to work out how Gross's guy cheated at the Scottish score. Even if I got to see the map half an hour in advance I'm not sure it would make much difference to me. You can't run under an alias in Scotland as everyone knows the regulars. What did he do? Did he have a bag full of punches?
I'm now trying to work out how Gross's guy cheated at the Scottish score. Even if I got to see the map half an hour in advance I'm not sure it would make much difference to me. You can't run under an alias in Scotland as everyone knows the regulars. What did he do? Did he have a bag full of punches?
- frog
Re: cheating at oringen.....
It's quite impressive how much faster the oringen guy was the second time round. I'm tempted to try running twice round a tricky area just to see how much faster I can go. (I'd be nc the second time.) I think for slow runners like me it wouldn't make much difference although if a suspicious looking middle aged woman in balaclava and sunglasses starts appearing at the beginning of races I may have become hooked on success.
- frog
Re: cheating at oringen.....
Ah yes old "Western Omnibuses" he was a scoundrel!!
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
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Re: cheating at oringen.....
The guy maprun and I allude to would be in his 70s now. Like maprun I don't know what became of it. Nothing was proven and he quietly disappeared never to be heard of again.
- Tim
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