Start Kite

[maprun]

I think most competitors view the start flag in the same was as Grintworp, just a flag to help you find the start on the ground/map and not something you need to be able to touch. IMO the organiser could only DQ someone if the competitor has not followed "instructions" to follow a taped route to the "start" on the basis the competitor has failed to follow the instructions of the organiser, or perhaps at the very least competitors should have been told unambiguously, you must start from the flag you can see over there.

[iainwp]

At the JK relays this year competitors were told at the start to that they faced disqualification if they didn't run past the start flag, which I assume meant close to. I can't remember the details of this instruction, as I didn't need too, I was on the 2nd leg. However, to me it didn't seem right for this to be the first time to hear anything about it. Was anyone on an opening leg with a better memory?

[Gnitworp]

Grintworp

It got misspelt enough forwards

[nooomember]

If, as previously quoted, the BOF rule states that the 'starting point is donated by the triangle on the map', then surely that should be the point at which the timing starts!?

[DavidHH]

If, as previously quoted, the BOF rule states that the 'starting point is donated by the triangle on the map', then surely that should be the point at which the timing starts!?

Quite agree.

As a relative newcomer to the sport, I understood the location of the start kite was to allow me to correlate where the start shown on the map was on the ground. At no event in the last 2 years has anyone ever advised me I had to pass close to the kite, although in most cases this invariably happens.

If it is that important to pass by the start kite then put a proper control there. It seems to me, when as has been discussed elsewhere, there are concerns about terminology used in orienteering putting off new participants, a nonsensical rule like this will put off more.

[andypat]

a nonsensical rule like this will put off more.

Welcome to orienteering David

[eddie]

So errrmmm What's the answer?

[graeme]

Peter Hodkinson is getting angry. Do you have to visit the start kite?...
So errrmmm What's the answer?

Whether he crosses a fence that's there and marked crossable, or not there and marked uncrossible, or gets given a dead EMIT block, or whatever ... No need to worry about details.

Standard practice is to disqualify Peter Hodkinson.

[eddie]

Peter doesn't want to visit the start kite
It is standard practise to disqualify Peter

Therefore if you don't visit the start kite you get disqualified.

Thanks Logic 1a.

[pete.owens]

If, as previously quoted, the BOF rule states that the 'starting point is donated by the triangle on the map', then surely that should be the point at which the timing starts!?

No it is where the navigation starts.

The timing starts in the start lane before you pick up your map - and if there is more than one course then you cannot all start at exactly the same place. There are any number of reasons why the people setting up the start lanes might want to adust the location slightly, and most mapped features would tend to get in the way.

[SJC]

So errrmmm What's the answer?

The same as it always has been.
Plan the courses and the start layout so that there is no alternative but to go past the start kite.

[Forest Gump]

And how often is this adhered too???........hardly ever

From Appendix B: Course Planning Jan 2014

4. The start
4.1.1........."For TD1 and 2 courses this feature will need to be a path or similar feature; also it should not be at a junction or intersection, as this would require the beginners to decide which way to go without knowing where they have just come from."......

[Glucosamine]

So errrmmm What's the answer?

The same as it always has been.
Plan the courses and the start layout so that there is no alternative but to go past the start kite.

And recalling some of those previous threads, through the start only when starting - if at all possible not on a subsequent leg, or indeed not having just touched that start kite.

[mrmoosehead]

And don't penalise someone for not going past it if there is a viable route that is different.

I've always viewed it as something to locate the start accurately on the map, so that if you had to start with a bearing or something, you'd have that first fixed point.


You can't enforce a 'go near the kite' - define near?

If you're going to enforce touching it, then make it a control that is trackable and enforceable and not open to interpretation.

[roadrunner]

Timing definitely doesn't start from the start kite - for those who remember the days before overprinted maps, you had to copy your course from master maps after starting (and before reaching the start kite).

I'm sure I remember some events in the past where there was a taped route to the start kite; I think the objective may have been to avoid you seeing the direction previous competitors took. Whether there was any alternative viable route to the first control I can't say.