EMIT card failures

[Red Adder]

I can't believe that EMIT bricks have a life of 2-3 years. My SI SI Card is in its 15th year - 300 events and 4500 sites visited in that time. I've only used EMIT a few times and found it very awkward to use - the only up side was the the display of sites visited which it appears is not longer a feature. As a planner / controller I've no gripes with SI either (though it does seem to help if you have a competent SI guru (and all the EA clubs seem to have that - and often more than one).

[roadrunner]

I can't believe that EMIT bricks have a life of 2-3 years. My SI SI Card is in its 15th year - 300 events and 4500 sites visited in that time.

As I understand it, the SI card is "passive" - it takes power from the control unit - so there's nothing to wear out, and it will last till it breaks physically (which some people have reported), or until it's superceded by a later version (e.g. if you need to record more than 30 controls). Emit, on the other hand, contains a battery, so its life is inherently limited (though I'm surprised that they last as short a time as some are saying here) - while Emit controls, so I believe, are un-powered.

The other impact of this is who takes the blame if a result isn't recorded because of a battery going flat. For SI, it's the event's fault without question, while for Emit, it's the competitor's (unless they're using a hired card, of course).

[graeme]

The other impact of this is who takes the blame.

Blame is less important than the resolution. There are as many system failures with SI as Emit. The most common is that the SI control unit fails completely, but this is easily dealt with without having to DQ anyone. Occasionally the control unit fails for one competitor - usually this results in a DQ, though I have seen people taking time to use the backup punch when the unit failed for them alone. Busy SI radio controls can do weird things too.

[Glucosamine]

So if emit cards are subject to random battery failures after a year or two initial honeymoon, then how do countries like Norway using the system for major events offer a backup if competitors don't bother with the designed in pin system? It seems one thing being DNFd for an individual badge (sorry - regional) event, quite another losing a competitive run on what might be the focus of a season - and a short season at that in Scandanavia. Do those who care simply dole out for a fresh card every year or two? Or is there a diagnostic for about-to-fail hardware?

[Little Hoddy]

WOC Sprint trial 2012 I was given a hired emit which didn't register at the start unit despite being held for a few seconds and getting the pin marks. Therefore I was given no race time and disqualified. The organising team told me it was my fault because I didn't get the pins at every control (and they had no way of actually working out how long I took). I've also been DSQed for failing to register at single controls 3 times in the last year, most recently at JK Long 2013. Its probably fair to say that I'm rubbish at using the system and shouldn't be risking it by speed punching, but I think that the time loss from pin punching every control is too serious, especially in sprint races (see how close the times were on M21E at JK this year). It also annoys me that some people can safely save time by speed punching as they have cards with displays, which can't be bought any more. This is unfair.

I've been using SI since 1999 at probably 90% of events I've run, and have never been disqualified for a unit or card failure. (Only for not checking codes, crossing walls etc etc).

If a future event decides not to use SI, I would be happiest if we could use old school pin punching, write down our names and addresses on a clipboard or perhaps take bark rubbings at each control, as these methods seem both fairer and less likely to fail than emit.

[housewife]

This is exactly my point. A punching system where some can gain an advantage by taking a chance and not pin punching is unfair. I have always pin punched properly, as I thought that was how it works. Can't say I have ever noticed the light flashing at the control, but if I can assume I have punched properly if I see a light, then I'll do that in future. I was told at the jk sprint it took me at least 2 secs to punch properly at the spectator control. I just have to run the risk of disqualification via a failed brik... The only was to make emit fair in a sprint race is to insist everyone gets the pin pricks, and then we will have to have teams of people checking back up cards. What does that remind me of??? Actually, checking those in the top 3 just would make things a lot fairer than they are just now!

[andypat]

The trouble with the flashing light is its very difficult to see in bright conditions eg nice sprinty open areas, which leads to people holding the card until it flashes a few times, leading to queues and delays...

I got a lesson in how to punch emit by a Finnish M21 from GRAMP recently - quite illuminating! I shall be trying this myself at the Scottish Sprints on Saturday. Will it be 2sec saved per control or a DQ? Find out here on Sat evening!

[charles2]

Using EMIT at the JK made me appreciate how I rely on the SI box beep since the flashing light on the EMIT station was hard to see.
Having said that the whole EMIT experience wasn't as bad as I thought it might be, but still much prefer SI.

[Jayne]

What happened to they system used at British Sprints at Sandhurst years ago when we just had to touch the control. That was quick - though wouldn't help if your brikke fails.

[RS]

Could be that we are using at Dorking urban?

[Rich R]

There is one other thing that has always conccerned me with Emit. I was told in the early days of Emit that your time was calculated as a cumulative of all your individual splits rather than overall time start to finish - I have never had this 'myth' either confirmed or otherwise though have two scenarios that indicate this may be true. On two occassions (Southern Champs at Hambledone two years ago and JK Middle the last time it was in the Forest of Dean) there has been a timed start and subsequently finished a few seconds behind competitors that have caught me up though the results indicate I have finished either with or before them.

The only reasons I can think that this has happened is that I have had lots of punches late in the second which have given me a time advantage, or the timers in each brikke are not accurate enough.

[MIE]

Could be that we are using at Dorking urban?

Similar but not the same. Newer technology and different "cards" (called Emitags)

see http://www.emit-uk.com/content/2012/04/ ... as-arrived
or if you are into Norwegian try http://www.emit.no/product/tfp

The previous touch-free Emit system used standard Emit "brikke" and had/has
a "brikke" pattern on the control marker.

[John-O]

My first EMIT card, a Type 3 with display, lasted 3 years 3 months and 25 events. Its replacement, also a Type 3, which I got at a discount from EMIT UK, is now older than that and is still going strong, but for how much longer?

After the first card failed, I left it on a shelf for many months continuously displaying a zero. Eventually, curiosity got the better of me and I cut it open. The battery was pretty flat. When I connected a new battery to the brikke I could see all the results from its last outing. I tested it at an event an all seemed to work OK so I bought a new battery of the correct type and put the brikke back together. It is still working. EMIT obviously greatly overestimated the battery life of the Type 3 brikkes and that is probably something they have come to regret. What a pity that they did not design it to take a replacement battery, or fit a small solar panel to keep it charged up.

while Emit controls, so I believe, are un-powered.

EMIT controls must have a battery in to light up the LED, although I believe some units do not have an LED. I find that EMIT brikkes can be recognised much more quickly than SI and can register at close proximity. In my opinion it was a design flaw not to use a much higher efficiency LED so that it could be seen in bright light. While most people seem to prefer the audible beep of an SI box I think that the choice of frequency and volume gives the control location away far too often.

I have been told that one of the deciding factors in the EMIT / SI choice was down to the software available at that time to analyse the results.

[AndyO]

I have been told that one of the deciding factors in the EMIT / SI choice was down to the software available at that time to analyse the results.

Actually one of the big factors in the decision among North clubs to choose Emit was the relative simplicity of the system. Controls could be set out well in advance of the event, or even simply hung by a loop from a suitable point at the control site; runners could run a course and get a print out of split times from the back of a car. No software, no need to set up the event on a computer. As a result, training and small events including night events could benefit from e-punching. We were aware of the lifespan of brikkes and control units, and although the initial cost was supported by grants from Awards for All, my club decided to set up a fund through a small "hire charge" for use of the system (included in entry cost) to replace units at the end of their lifecycle. Having a core of neighbouring clubs using the system allowed us to share units for large events. Software has improved considerably since then and along with that the expertise in using the system among volunteers.

[graeme]

I was told in the early days of Emit that your time was calculated as a cumulative of all your individual splits rather than overall time start to finish

For a high­ level event with a timed start, it is important that the timing for each
competitor’s run is based on the event clocks (i.e. the start clock and the finish
computer’s clock), rather than the individual clocks inside each card.