How not to lay out the final control at a major sprint event

[Snail]

To return to IanD's original point, which is essentially independent of the punching system in use, it is quite difficult to come up with a layout that avoids conflicts.

On Day 2 the units at the last control were along one side of the running line, so the 90-degree problem was absent, but runners going in to say the 3rd or 4th unit still baulked those leaving the 1st or 2nd units.

Perhaps the only way to completely avoid the problem is for the units to be spread across the "running line" - in the way the finish units are - but this requires course planning in a way that competitors can equally approach any of the units, which would rule out many control sites.

[Sunlit Forres]

We've been using EMIT here for 10 years and I've never mispunched in my life. All you have to do is touch the business end of the control and look for the flash. It's the same for everyone on any given course so I don't know what everyone's complaining about - you sound like a load of spoiled brats.

I agree with the observation that started the thread though. Sounds like an unfortunate oversight in an otherwise amazing weekend that I supect everyone will learn from.

[drobin]

and I've never mispunched (failed to register) in my life. All you have to do is touch the business end of the control and look for the flash.

Its not unheard of to get mp with SI. I had to deal with some last week.

Perhaps the best layout is where you can pass either side.

[nooomember]

awk - either practice or accept the fact it's the same for everyone, you don't lose 2/3 places every punch if it's the same for everyone, in fact you'd gain if you could punch properly!

Yes, everyone has the same chance of finding a control oriented the "right" or "wrong" way (from their perspective), so there's no way to gain an overall advantage* - but it still affects the results, I think that was Awk's point.

* - Unless you know how the planner sets out the controls

It shouldn't be down to 'chance' whether you find the control box the right way round.

I agree, practice wouldnt help; Emit is simply awkward, and does take longer than SI - time to stick to one system, SportIdent. The majority own / use it; the majority prefer it, FACT.

[roadrunner]

We've been using EMIT here for 10 years and I've never mispunched in my life. All you have to do is touch the business end of the control and look for the flash. It's the same for everyone on any given course so I don't know what everyone's complaining about - you sound like a load of spoiled brats.

Two problems I can see: (1) no backup punch and (2) it's fine if everyone does as you say, but less experienced orienteers (or those less experienced with Emit) are likely to punch in the "standard" way.

[besty]

My issue with emit is that you have to hold it so you have to have map and compass in the other hand whereas with SI the card is secured to your finger so that you can also have a compass in the same hand and the map in the other, or vice versa, as I like to to do.

[SeanC]

Just for balance ... 3ibbers do snap in half. One did on me at the Canterbury KNC a few weeks ago and I was left with a 1cm tip... cost me about 3 or 4 mins. It was a dodgy Saxons hired 3ibber though

Show that photo to a non orienteering friend and the comment isn't going to be about the orientation of the emit punch, but that it looks a bit odd that juniors have the same run in as the adults.

[Roger]

SCOA evaluated both systems before deciding to buy Emit, 10-ish years ago. I wasn't involving in the decision-making. I thought at the time that the principal criterion ought to be what was in use in the neighbouring regions and I expected SI to be a shoo-in; although that was considered, ease of use for the officials ranked higher.

Since then, SI has done some catching-up and is now easier than it used to be for the officials; also, the new SI cards have removed the perceptible lag that the old ones suffer.

Emit is simply awkward, and does take longer than SI - time to stick to one system, SportIdent. The majority own / use it; the majority prefer it, FACT.

I respected the SCOA decision and have come to prefer Emit. Except in relays I don't go for the back-up punch, and I can punch faster with Emit than with SI. So for me, on a like-for-like comparison (no back-up card for either), the statement "Emit is simply awkward, and does take longer than SI" is simply untrue.

Did you get a good head-cam video from JK Day 2? If so then post it and perhaps some of the experienced Emit users could advise you how you could speed up.

[drobin]

drobin wrote:
and I've never mispunched (failed to register) in my life.

. . until today!

Gnitworp wrote:
Emit- no probs.

. . . until today?

[awk]

UMMMM What diference did it being emit make? SI boxes also fail to flash sometimes.

If the SI box fails, it effects everybody equally, and is easy to spot. If the emit card fails, it effects you alone, and on at least two occasions in my experience I've apparently dnf'd because of the hire card's failure. From what I could see this weekend, I think the organisers got around that problem by videoing the finish. Certainly, there are several results included where there are no splits for the person concerned.

(and an emit card with a display tells you when you have punched correctly on the display - I know the hire ones for the JK didn't but....)

No they don't - Emit no longer make cards with a display.

We've been using EMIT here for 10 years and I've never mispunched in my life.

I've never mispunched, but I've been told that I've dnf'd on at least two occasions with a faulty card.

All you have to do is touch the business end of the control and look for the flash.

Great - a bit of sunlight and the flash is nigh on invisible.

It's the same for everyone on any given course so I don't know what everyone's complaining about - you sound like a load of spoiled brats.

No it's not: a brick failure is not the same for everyone; positioning is not the same for everyone, and can make quite a difference in a sprint race, especially with some of the positioning we saw on Friday.

But we could go on for ever - nobody is going to change their position. However, the comments this weekend showed that the vast majority of competitors dislike Emit, quite a few intensely.

in an otherwise amazing weekend

Yes, there we are in complete agreement: it was a superb weekend - I really enjoyed all four days, especially the forests which were an absolute joy to be in. Some great racing and great competition. SCOA did a fantastic job.

[DavidJ]

SCOA evaluated both systems before deciding to buy Emit, 10-ish years ago.

My understanding is that 10 years is about the expected life of much of the current Emit equipment and that in the next few years major investment in new stock might be needed. As a SCOA resident, as a competitor I happily use both systems as I frequently compete in other regions. As such I would tend to favour a decision to convert to SI. However, as I understand it, from organisers' and planners' perspectives there may be other considerations - not that I really want to get involved in the debate!

[seabird]

I'm not sure why anyone nowadays would want to place an emit card flat in the block. They work perfectly well being "dibbed" into the ridge. This means there is no need for contortions, whatever your line of approach.

I never worry about the back up punch. But I was certainly delayed at a number of controls over the weekend by people who were going through contortions trying to get the card flat, to secure the back up. If I was seriously competitive I would find this delay very annoying.

I'm an Si fan, but over the past year have had 5 races when my SI card has failed to register a punch, which is beginning to erode my confidence in that system. On a far far smaller sample - I've never had a mispunch with emit.

[awk]

I'm not sure why anyone nowadays would want to place an emit card flat in the block. They work perfectly well being "dibbed" into the ridge. This means there is no need for contortions, whatever your line of approach. I never worry about the back up punch.

I wish I had the same confidence - twice bitten, several times over shy. Started risking it this weekend, and it worked OK. So, you never know....!

But I was certainly delayed at a number of controls over the weekend by people who were going through contortions trying to get the card flat, to secure the back up. If I was seriously competitive I would find this delay very annoying.

Yes, delayed a few times with this, especially on the sprint. Yes, it was very annoying, and I'm not elite!

I'm an Si fan, but over the past year have had 5 races when my SI card has failed to register a punch, which is beginning to erode my confidence in that system.

Understandable. Did the box register the card? I know that rules don't allow for that, but just wondered, as I've never been quite sure why that's the case.

[AndyC]

[quote="awk]

(and an emit card with a display tells you when you have punched correctly on the display - I know the hire ones for the JK didn't but....)

No they don't - Emit no longer make cards with a display.]


and some of us were wise enough to get one that does when they were available -NOTE I SPECIFICALLY SAID "with a display"

[Mr timE]

That's why it would have been better to have used the EMIT touch-free system, which is being used for the Brits Urban event on Mon 6 May, but the admin overhead of issuing etags for Day 1 and then ecards for day 2 was considered too much hassle.