Tankersley - Middle distance - disqualifications

[Jayne]

It wasn't very clear. I didn't expect to see open and the fence was quite indistinct (broken in places and under undergrowth). There seemed to be quite a track over the open ground so I very much doubt you were the only one.

[Freefall]

Making a mistake here is understandable - doesn't look very olive green terrain in this image but Duncan should have realised he wasn't in the woods!

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[madmike]

Making a mistake here is understandable - doesn't look very olive green terrain in this image but Duncan should have realised he wasn't in the woods

Thanks Freefall for the picture clears a lot up for those of us wondering what the fuss was about. What you say above is probably true but it must have been mighty confusing and in fact it looks like Duncan actually lost 80-90 secs on the leg rather than gained an advantage.

A poor choice to use of settlement green vice rough-open with OOB overhatch the issue here methinks rather than Duncan not noticing he was no longer in the woods. A lesson for future planners and controllers here rather than blame a competitor (or lots of them).

[andypat]

Deliberately kept off this thread due to the provocative nature of the initial post but since its grown legs...

Making a mistake here is understandable - doesn't look very olive green terrain in this image but Duncan should have realised he wasn't in the woods

Totally understandable and big of Duncan to come on a fess up. It did look pretty damining on the GPS I have to say - he'd clearly made no attempt to hide it though (which the naysayers should also be aware is perfectly possible).

While Freefall says he should have realised he was not in the woods, what would you have thought more likely on the ground - that you were in an unmapped clearing, or someones garden. Agree with Madmike that olive green simply doesnt seem to fit whats on the ground and apparently without a clear boundary probably the fairest thing might have been to avoid a leg that direction in the first place.

[buzz]

Duncan - you should have just said that you were colour blind - it looks like open land to me!

[Ali Wood]

Go on Nooomember, make a complaint, and let us know how you get on. Keep us posted!

Well Nooomember, have you complained yet and put your money where your mouth is?

[AndyC]

.... and apparently without a clear boundary probably the fairest thing might have been to avoid a leg that direction in the first place.

alternatively perhaps some tape could have been used to create a temporary boundary?
a line of red and white (or perhaps better black and yellow) on the ground would have meant nothing to the general public but an orienteer would pause and realie the mistake he was about to make perhaps?

[greywolf]

Making a mistake here is understandable - doesn't look very olive green terrain in this image but Duncan should have realised he wasn't in the woods!

the aerial pic is helpful but not the comment - as it happens the area appears to be rough open but it could equally have been covered in trees, there's nothing on the map to indicate either. As Duncan says, in ISOM the symbol means "Houses and gardens and other built up areas" - it would have been better to have been mapped as rough open and then overprinted with symbol 709, the purple vertical lines.

[AndyC]

Of course Duncan should have avoided the issue altogether by defending his North-East Score Championship at Chopwell Woods on Sunday instead of going to Tankersley

[Strider]

Of course, under ISOM2000 standards, green settlements are not automatically OOB, unlike on ISSOM2007 sprint maps, so in that respect Duncan would be ok....

However, I've just been looking at the map again to see what indication there is on there that olive green was OOB for the event and the only thing I can see is indicating that this colour is not to be crossed is that the legend gives it as 'Settlement: Out of Bounds', which is in about font size 6 There's no overprint nor is there any other event specific info on the map, other than courses close at 2pm and road crossings were timed out. I've tried to find the final details on the SYO website to see what was in there about OOB, but can't locate them now. There was a board in the start lane with a wealth of info on it - did it state anything specifically about the OOB status of settlements?

S.

[haloite]

On my course (Brown) it was VERY tempting to run through the rough open - but being use to ISSOM - where olive is OOB - I automatically assumed it was OOB and cut along the edge of the wood (which was slow going for someone with little legs more use to the smooth ride of tarmac )!!

[madmike]

On my course (Brown) it was VERY tempting to run through the rough open - but being use to ISSOM - where olive is OOB - I automatically assumed it was OOB and cut along the edge of the wood (which was slow going for someone with little legs more use to the smooth ride of tarmac )!!

Yes and on Duncan's course Neil K did that whilst little Geoff went through the houses legally. The splits say your/Neil's route was better than little Geoff's varient and hence my assessment of 80-90 sec loss for Duncan as he, Neil and Geoff were all running about the same speed.

PS it looks like Baba got confused there too, wonder whether that was the mapping too?

[ianandmonika]

Although ISOM 2000 does not identify olive green settlement as OOB, I think most people's interpretation is that it is OOB. Or are we saying that we should overprint all OOB settlements with black vertical stripes for permanent OOB - isn't olive green enough?Dalegarth BOC map last year just used olive green for settlements, although nowhere near as significant as it was at Tankersley. Think area in question should have been mainly rough open with purple vertical stripe unless it was clearly somebody's garden, which probably means clearly fenced off, when olive green could have been used?

[awk]

Although ISOM 2000 does not identify olive green settlement as OOB, I think most people's interpretation is that it is OOB. Or are we saying that we should overprint all OOB settlements with black vertical stripes for permanent OOB - isn't olive green enough?

My interpretation of olive green has been that it's permanently out of bounds on ISSOM maps, but go-able on ISOM unless marked otherwise with vertical purple or black lines. The definition for 729 (purple vertical lines) underlines this: "An out-of-bounds area, see also symbol 528, is shown with vertical stripes". So, no, olive green is not enough on ISOM.

[King Penguin]

Yet more confusion for beginners.
Should / could Olive Green not have the same meaning in both standards ?
When is it reasonable to run through Olive Green without offending the locals ? I suggest only if it would be more appropriate to map it in some other way.
Having to overprint OOB lines over olive green just seems totally OTT to me.