Edinburgh weekend and Sprint maps

[seabird]

If we are trying to address the needs of newcomers, stating in pre-event details that a map is either ISSOM or ISOM is going to be completely meaning less to them. It's jargon.

Blank maps (not necessarily of the area of the event) on display at registration are the only way you can effectively explain the specification/legend to a newcomer.

For lower level events brief verbal explanations seem to suffice.

[AndyC]

I actually did look at the legend of a map recently but only to check if the symbol I was talking to a junior about was actually on it

[andy]

Perhaps we don't need to get too concerned about people changing from one standard to another as long as what is on the map is a clear representation of what is on the ground.

This makes a lot of sense to me

[JK]

The additional "S" in ISSOM stands for Sprint.

BUT

* We have sprint events that use ISOM (or close approximations)
* We have non-sprint events that use ISSOM (ditto)

The big difference between the two is the legality of passing certain obstacles and in particular in Urban events [maybe ISUOM would be a better name]

If an event is "obvious" forest then most of us expect ISOM; if it is advertised as an urban race then we expect ISSOM; if it is anything else (Park for instance) then we need to know. And in particular we need to know about what we are allowed to cross and what we aren't (which is one of the major features of ISSOM).

My only major peeve with ISSOM (apart from the lack of a "U" in its name) is the use of both black/green and dark green. Personally I think there'd be less hassle if for every ISSOM map it was clearly stated one of:

• All dark green on the map is actually black/green and is forbidden to cross
• There is no black/green on map so you are permitted to cross dark green if you consider it passable.

This is since I find it very hard to distinguish the two, even at our biggest events with our best printers - especially when in narrow strips or near other black features.

[madmike]

The additional "S" in ISSOM stands for Sprint.

BUT

* We have sprint events that use ISOM (or close approximations)
* We have non-sprint events that use ISSOM (ditto)

The big difference between the two is the legality of passing certain obstacles and in particular in Urban events [maybe ISUOM would be a better name]

If an event is "obvious" forest then most of us expect ISOM; if it is advertised as an urban race then we expect ISSOM; if it is anything else (Park for instance) then we need to know. And in particular we need to know about what we are allowed to cross and what we aren't (which is one of the major features of ISSOM).

My only major peeve with ISSOM (apart from the lack of a "U" in its name) is the use of both black/green and dark green. Personally I think there'd be less hassle if for every ISSOM map it was clearly stated one of:

• All dark green on the map is actually black/green and is forbidden to cross
• There is no black/green on map so you are permitted to cross dark green if you consider it passable.

This is since I find it very hard to distinguish the two, even at our biggest events with our best printers - especially when in narrow strips or near other black features.

+1 - spot on JK

[The Loofa]

if you put those 2 shades next to each other they've got to be in pretty large chunks for me to spot the difference. One by itself - no chance. So I'd like to see a change there too.

[roadrunner]

My only major peeve with ISSOM (apart from the lack of a "U" in its name) is the use of both black/green and dark green. Personally I think there'd be less hassle if for every ISSOM map it was clearly stated one of:

• All dark green on the map is actually black/green and is forbidden to cross
• There is no black/green on map so you are permitted to cross dark green if you consider it passable.

This is since I find it very hard to distinguish the two, even at our biggest events with our best printers - especially when in narrow strips or near other black features.

I agree completely - unless both colours are there, and preferably fairly close together, I find it very hard to tell which is which, and sometimes lose time trying to work it out. Variations between printers makes it even harder.

[EddieH]

I remember discussions at the JK sprint in Newcastle. Afterwards a number of us definitely agreed that certain areas were forbidden green and certain others fight green. I was later told there was no forbidden green on the map

It really is the most stupid symbol the IOF have come up with.

[Gnitworp]

If a race advertised as sprint has to declare itself ISSOM, then a race that is non-sprint should have to declare itself as ISOM.

Thanks, Mharky, I've just added 'ISOM' to the flyer for the next event I'm doing, which is particularly necessary since the map scale is 1:5000 and therefore non-standard.

Don't miss it TVOC Sat 23rd Feb, Big Wood

[graeme]

Can't say I have much problem telling them apart. To me, the "forbidden green" symbol looks closer to black.

On the other hand, on some "ISSOM" maps the ISOM "fight" colour is incorrectly used to mean impassible, FORBIDDEN.
If idiot mappers use the wrong symbol you can hardly blame the IOF.

I don't much like the forbidden green area symbol. As a mapper you don't generally know what's OOB (The JK/Newcastle mapper told me he thought it was the planner/organisers responsibility to find this out and change the map). As a planner/organiser you won't actually DQ anyone for going in, so you're just storing up grief for yourself. And finally, as a competitor, it's almost always faster to go round bushes than through them!

[Big Jon]

I remember discussions at the JK sprint in Newcastle. Afterwards a number of us definitely agreed that certain areas were forbidden green and certain others fight green. I was later told there was no forbidden green on the map

It really is the most stupid symbol the IOF have come up with.

I completely agree - another sign of IOF mapping disappearing up its own arse along with their fundamentalist view of long distance races having to be on 1:15000 scale maps even if the terrain cannot be adequately and fairly shown at this scale.

[graeme]

On the contrary Jon, the fundmentalist view is...
The rules are reasonable and clear when it comes to map scale! Find a terrain that is suitable for the competition format (i.e. don't hold the race at all.)

Are "fundamentalists" those guys in the ill-fitting pyjamas and unshaven beards?

[madmike]

it's almost always faster to go round bushes than through them!

That might be true for you skinny, fast-running, racing-snakes but some of us (slower but somewhat heavier chaps) are much faster crashing through bushes most of the time.

[Glucosamine]

Given that nobody seems to admit looking at legends it is perhaps academic, but events where the ISOM map labels dark green as 'impassable' but where the planner offers an optimum route through what turn out to be distinctly passable but unmapped gaps (and routegadget suggests that most duly used those gaps) present a not unrelated frustration. Somtimes it really is impassable (e.g. sea buckthorn) but mostly not. Local knowledge seems to be the key for the competitor.

[pete.owens]

I don't much like the forbidden green area symbol. As a mapper you don't generally know what's OOB (The JK/Newcastle mapper told me he thought it was the planner/organisers responsibility to find this out and change the map). As a planner/organiser you won't actually DQ anyone for going in, so you're just storing up grief for yourself. And finally, as a competitor, it's almost always faster to go round bushes than through them!

If you are unsure then it is better to mark them all as forbidden to cross. The chances are that the owner of a hedge, or bush in an urban area doesn't want to have runners thrashing through it - and if you are planning a sprint course then fighting through thick vegetation at less than 20% running speed is not one of the skills you are aiming to test.

I have no problem with the black green symbol in itself (what colour would you use for a hedge?), but would go with JK in not using the fight symbol as it is sometimes difficult to tell apart. The JK sprint in Belfast had some tricky bits of thickets that were part fight/part forbidden and unless the symbols were adjacent it was difficult to tell them apart. It is confusing when some mappers use black green for flower beds, rather than olive OOB.