New SI cards

[binman]

I guess the real choice in the SI or Emit debate is if you prefer the problems/disadvantages to be weighted towards the competitor or the organiser.

Absolutely. Hence, my preference for EMIT having had ten years constant use, I find the other system irritatingly fiddly to use, epsecially in sprint races where I can flow through controls with EMIT but constantly have to wiggle and re-dip (ahem) to get the thing to beep with the consequent risk of losing focus in the vital seconds when leaving a control.

For the competitor, it's what you are used to that's the key factor here, not the system. As for the organiser/planner who isn't a techy-type, all this version control and incompatiability stuff, must be an addiotional worry/potential barrier to taking on the job compared to using a system where this doesn't apply?

[kedge]

After two events over the weekend highlighted potential problems for users of the new Type 10 & 11 SI cards if clubs haven't updated the firmware in the units, Sport Ident today circulated a newsletter to those on its mailing list including the advice

We recommend that you upgrade all your stations (including download stations and Printoutstations) using this new firmware as soon as possible, especially if your stations are still on a version earlier than 574

Now they tell us!

Busy updating our units as I write this.

[Karen]

Thanks for all the information folks.
Think I'll wait for the system to bed in before I decide to buy a new card....

[Paul Frost]

Now they tell us!

Well not quite, they have been saying to update to 574 since the middle of last year.

That newsletter had a lot of interesting news and things happening in the future.

[roadrunner]

I still think that there's a design flaw in the new cards, from what's been said: unless (from the card's point of view) the punch has been recorded, the card shouldn't flash; similarly, unless from the control's point of view the punch has been recorded, the control shouldn't flash and beep. If the software versions are incompatible you could certainly (in principle) have one of these and not the other, as you possibly could if you removed the card too soon, but either way the flash from the card should tell you that all's well, IMHO.

[AndyC]

I still think that there's a design flaw in the new cards, from what's been said: unless (from the card's point of view) the punch has been recorded, the card shouldn't flash; similarly, unless from the control's point of view the punch has been recorded, the control shouldn't flash and beep. If the software versions are incompatible you could certainly (in principle) have one of these and not the other, as you possibly could if you removed the card too soon, but either way the flash from the card should tell you that all's well, IMHO.

I have no reason to think this apart from assuming SI are sensible and logical -maybe the entire object of the firmware update is to ensure that the sequence is exactly what you ask i.e. the card doesn't register internally until it haas been recorded on the box?

[kedge]

There is no design flaw in the new cards. They behaved exactly as they should have done.

When an SI card is inserted into the control unit, the unit writes data onto the chip in the card. When this sequence is concluded, the unit beeps and flashes as confirmation that the process is complete: the new Type 11 cards also flash at this point, as long as the box has the correct version of the firmware in it.

The new cards only work in control units which have firmware v5.74 upwards. The latest version,v5.80, was released three weeks ago at about the same time as the new cards came on sale.

Sport Ident UK yesterday sent out to all SI users in the UK a comprehensive newsletter, including the advice to SI managers to update their control units as soon as feasible to the new version.

Its always the early adopters of new technology who suffer any teething troubles. In this case, because the new SI cards went on sale before clubs got the advice to check boxes and update any that weren't on v5.74.

Updating the firmware in the boxes takes a few minutes. Either last time my club updated, we missed a box, or (more likely) the update didn't take first time (you occasionally find that you have to repeat the update with the SI Boot program before it writes correctly) and because we were running multiple laptops doing the update, we were in a rush and didn't spot the error.

Unfortunately, this last weekend, before the advice in the newsletter was published, two clubs holding events discovered that by an oversight, although they thought that all their units were running 5.74, at each event one unit in use was still running an older firmware version (5.68). When the users of these new cards (there only seem to have been two of them out in the wild) were 'dipped' into the offending units, neither card nor unit flashed and beeped, because the units were unable to write the time to the chip in the new card. Reading the contents of the control box into a laptop after the event revealed that there was an error code against the serial number of the new cards at the time when their owners reported visiting the controls. Runners have been re-instated, SI units have been updated. End of problem.

[m4rk]

When the users of these new cards (there only seem to have been two of them out in the wild) were 'dipped' into the offending units, neither card nor unit flashed and beeped, because the units were unable to write the time to the chip in the new card.

This isn't quite true - the unit did not flash or beep, but the card did flash, both times. If the card hadn't flashed, I would have punched the map.

So it seem that the card flashes at the beginning of the process, rather than when the process is complete?

[kedge]

Interesting. I'm waiting for my new card to arrive, so have no experience with the Type 11.

The SI website states

The SI-Card 11 has an LED which flashes when the card is successfully punched at an SI-Control. The flashing continues for a short period after leaving a control providing reassurance that a time has been stored on the card

Presumably the flash of the LED on the card is reporting that an attempt has been made to record a time.

On Sunday, your card didn't get a time stamp for unit 191 although when I checked it afterwards, 191 had recorded your visit with an 'error' rather than a time. The card didn't register a similar error message.

Clearly, until we've had a couple of months for all clubs to check their kit, users of the new cards may have to be prepared to fight their corner at download.

[Ali Wood]

Funny, 12:12pm by my watch... I am about to post in the future... look at the time... spooky
Now, can the new SI cards cope with THAT?

[andy]

Funny, 12:12pm by my watch... I am about to post in the future... look at the time... spooky

User Control Panel
Board Preferences
Summer Time/DST is in effect

Now, can the new SI cards cope with THAT?

Probably not! Had that problem before too when half the units at an event had been updated for the time change and half had not

[King Penguin]

On Sunday, your card didn't get a time stamp for unit 191 although when I checked it afterwards, 191 had recorded your visit with an 'error' rather than a time. The card didn't register a similar error message.

Exactly the same circumstances on Saturday, and to correct an earlier post I believe the weekend problems were not with two runners / new version 11 cards but with the same one at both events !
The reply HOC received from Sportident said that there are currently only 7 such cards in circulation in the UK.
Well done Mark on volunteering for testing duties.

[kedge]

We had two of these cards in use at our event on Sunday, M4rk and one other.

As my venerable Type 5 card is showing signs of cracking up (like its owner), I've just ordered a new Type 11 as well. As its seven figure card number can be personalised, its got my birthdate on it, so at least I should be able to remember my card number in the future .

[SIandrew]

SI-Card 11s (and 10s) can only be used with stations with firmware 574 or later.

If an SI-Card 11 is dipped in a station with firmware 574 or later then it flashes at the end of the cycle, at the same time as the station beeps/flashes. The card will continue flashing for approximately 7 seconds.

If an SI-Card 11 is dipped in a station with firmware 568 then it will flash when "in the hole" however the station will not beep or flash. The punch will show as an ErrA in the station and the data is not written to the card.

If an SI-Card 11 is dipped in a station with firmware before 568 then the card will not flash.

Andrew

[King Penguin]

... or look at it when you forget your date of birth !