SI "beep"

[awk]

no damage done apart from the time taken to re-insert

Which means that damage was done!

[Ali Wood]

EMIT for me every time. Not for orienteering, though. Makes a great paper weight. Or door wedge. Or door.

[binman]

In a vain attempt to move on from the tiresome old SI/EMIT 'debate', has anyone else wondered why, in a world where technology moves on at a frighteningly fast pace, there has been no game-changing technology leap forward in e-punching for at least 10 years?

[King Penguin]

Didn't proximity EMIT appear in the last 10 years ?

More importantly, for an essentially amater sport, what would be the uptake speed of a completely different solution ? Most clubs have invested heavily in either EMIT or SI and can not afford to simply throw that all away and replace with something different.
Many competitors have purchased their own SI/EMIT card and would be similarly relcutant to buy another. If competitors do not buy their own, clubs would have to invest in 100 - 200 as well as the station units.

I suspect a new radical approach will only take off if (a) it is cheap and/or (b) uses technology that an increasing number of people already have e.g. smartphone and barcode scan, with a cheap portable scanner for those without a suitable phone. Even then, I would be reluctant to carry a decent phone on the run and risk damage / loss in a bog etc.

[Big Jon]

e.g. smartphone and barcode scan, with a cheap portable scanner for those without a suitable phone. Even then, I would be reluctant to carry a decent phone on the run and risk damage / loss in a bog etc.

I can't see any sensible orienteer carrying a mobile phone (let alone a smart phone costing hundreds of pounds) in their hand in the forest.

[RJ]

A Garmin watch that is downloaded at the finish will give route and timing. Just needs the software to deal with dozens of competitors and a suitable display of the results.

[Gnitworp]

Isn't 100% reliability the most important issue and what they should be trying to achieve. Greater sophistication is useless if units fail an ruin events.

[mister blobs]

Didn't proximity EMIT appear in the last 10 years ?
...
I suspect a new radical approach will only take off if (a) it is cheap and/or (b) uses technology that an increasing number of people already have ....

I have been confused for some years by SI's pricing. The RFID chips they use are cheap (typically less than £1 each) add on a plastic housing and the elastic and the total cost must be less than £2 for a SI Card. So why are we paying £30 plus (other than SI can charge that much because we do pay it). At work we have shipped several thousand RFID readers to customers over the last few years. Our readers typically retail at £40 to £50 each so why are SI controls so expensive?
From our experience over the last few years, the technology focus from manufacturers has been focused on security - making sure that your card can't be cloned. There have been improvements in memory size but the high volume applications (Oyster card for example) tend not to care too much about storage capacity.
I have long considered producing a cheap alternative to SI. I have been put off by - exactly as you say - most/all clubs have gone with either SI or EMIT so would they buy anything new even if the controls were £50 each and "dibbers" less than £5 each? Would your club buy?
There are plenty of improvements in functionality that could be added to make running events easier but would anyone be interested?

[bewildered]

SportIdent dibbers aren't passive RFID, which are the ones that cost <£1. You may notice at the end of the race that you can download times for each control. That information has to be stored on the SI Card, meaning that it must have some "intelligence" and some memory.

The passive RFID tags are great for events where you need a start and finish time, as the readers record the tag information and the time read and store that on a local computer.

[mharky]

http://en.chinahealth.cn/products_detail/&productId=42483ff9-10af-4af0-9f87-e95f337b78da&comp_stats=comp-FrontProducts_list01-1300071342241.html

The Chinese copy of SI.

[roadrunner]

http://en.chinahealth.cn/products_detail/&productId=42483ff9-10af-4af0-9f87-e95f337b78da&comp_stats=comp-FrontProducts_list01-1300071342241.html

The Chinese copy of SI.

... and the price is 0.00 according to the web site, hard to beat that

I did like the description:

Function of inadequatepunching electric quantity interpretation

Now what on earth does that mean...

[mister blobs]

SportIdent dibbers aren't passive RFID, which are the ones that cost <£1. You may notice at the end of the race that you can download times for each control. That information has to be stored on the SI Card, meaning that it must have some "intelligence" and some memory.

The passive RFID tags are great for events where you need a start and finish time, as the readers record the tag information and the time read and store that on a local computer.

Passive RFID means that they don't have a battery. Their power comes from the carrier RF signal produced by the reader. SI doesn't have a battery so it IS passive RFID. Many passive RFID cards have EEPROM memory that can be erased and written many times but they are still passive and they are still a few cents each. I have bought 4kbit DesFire cards for less than £1 each in relatively small quantities - this is more than enough to store control code and time for 64 or more controls.

[bewildered]

SportIdent dibbers aren't passive RFID, which are the ones that cost <£1. You may notice at the end of the race that you can download times for each control. That information has to be stored on the SI Card, meaning that it must have some "intelligence" and some memory.

The passive RFID tags are great for events where you need a start and finish time, as the readers record the tag information and the time read and store that on a local computer.

Passive RFID means that they don't have a battery. Their power comes from the carrier RF signal produced by the reader. SI doesn't have a battery so it IS passive RFID. Many passive RFID cards have EEPROM memory that can be erased and written many times but they are still passive and they are still a few cents each. I have bought 4kbit DesFire cards for less than £1 each in relatively small quantities - this is more than enough to store control code and time for 64 or more controls.

Then design and market a whole new system!

[andy]

Passive RFID means that they don't have a battery. Their power comes from the carrier RF signal produced by the reader. SI doesn't have a battery so it IS passive RFID. Many passive RFID cards have EEPROM memory that can be erased and written many times but they are still passive and they are still a few cents each. I have bought 4kbit DesFire cards for less than £1 each in relatively small quantities - this is more than enough to store control code and time for 64 or more controls.

If you are right then SI have packaged it and built it up into something very profitable. If you can do it cheaper/better then go for it. A bit of competition can't harm the market place for us consumers.

[graeme]

I have been confused for some years by SI's pricing. ... Our readers typically retail at £40 to £50 each so why are SI controls so expensive?

I was once confused by this too - you're looking from the wrong angle.
SI is a business, it has to cover its costs. In the beginning, while it's selling units there's enough turnover to be viable. Now that almost everyone has a dιbber, and clubs have enough units, there's no turnover, so to be viable the company needs a high profit margin.
Similar argument applies to OCAD, a great product which now charges huge amounts for marginal functionality increase.
How bad would it be if SI went bust?