British Schools Champs

[awk]

Ok Awk - then call it the English/Welsh/Northern Irish Schools Association (EWNISA). You've just admitted it isn't a British Association, so why the inaccuracy in its name?

It's not inaccurate - any school in Britain is eligible to join.

[awk]

The idea of a school team is meaningless if it won't let you compile a team from children who are in the same school year and used to competing together. Scottish years are never going to be identical to English ones but you'd think there'd be some flexibility so a Scottish S1 team (most of whom will be 12-13 although some will be 11 due to the flexibility given to Scottish parents with kids with certain birthdates as to which academic year they start school) competes with English year 8. The exact years that correlate could be agreed between the nations but having a school year system sounds more sensible than trying to make Scottish kids fit the English school year.

I've just been to the British Schools Champs rules, and can't see any mention of this being a problem - yes the rules are defined in terms of English-Welsh-NI school years, but everything is defined in terms of school years rather than date of birth. Am I missing something? (Probably!)

[frog]

Here in 1.3.1 http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/i ... rule_q.pdf
they are quite specific about years being in "national" curriculum years, although being only a pseudoBritish organisation they don't clarify that this mean English and Welsh national curriculum years. They completely ignore the Scots in this document.

[andypat]

From this

I see the British Schools is at Beecraigs on Sunday... for those coming if the weather is like today it will be fantastic Have just been running round Beecraigs... bright sunshine, +6 temp... beautiful Enjoy

to this....

Here in 1.3.1 http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/i ... rule_q.pdf
they are quite specific about years being in "national" curriculum years, although being only a pseudoBritish organisation they don't clarify that this mean English and Welsh national curriculum years. They completely ignore the Scots in this document.

In one easy thread.
Most grist to the mill for those who feel Nopesport has lost its mojo

[frog]

It seems sad though if the British school champs are in Scotland yet the rules disadvantage Scottish pupils. We could just ignore it and just say "great have fun" but if the British school champs wants to have more Scottish schools participating they should try looking at how Scottish school years can be incorporated into the system.
If a non -o inclined sports teacher has to start asking everyone their birthdays and mixing and matching teams including teams across primary and secondary schools they will decide orienteering is way too complex with all the other stuff and not bother.
Perhaps the British schools champs isn't really viable as a concept.

[madmike]

Perhaps the British schools champs isn't really viable as a concept.

nearly a 1000 kids came and had agreat time when we did it 2 years ago - how can it not be viable

[RichT]

You should wait until next year when they try and sort out World Schools teams. On the Saturday they all race according to junior ages (M/W14, M/W16) based on birthdays and on the Sunday race according to (English) school years (BY8, GY9, etc). But its worth the organisational effort to see the happy faces when they climb to the top of the pile.

You've got to be in it to win it .

[Blonde bombshell]

Well, this is all very interesting.
I have no idea how the Scottish school years differ from the rest of Britain. Could anyone explain the difference?

Does BSOA know about the difference?
Has anyone told them?
Has anyone from Scottish schools talked to BSOA or been to any meetings?

It seems a bit unfair to knock BSOA without getting the full picture.
No event is ever perfect and I am sure the rules woyld have been looked at many times.
You can tinker until the cows come home, but someone will always be unhappy.

BSOC is the only national schools competition and with between 600 - 100 entrants each year it is a great occasion.

Lets stop knocking it and encourage all runners to enjoy the day.

[Simon E]

nearly a 1000 kids came and had agreat time when we did it 2 years ago - how can it not be viable

Must be age or the Italian way of life catching up with you Mike. HH staged BSOC exactly one year ago this weekend, not 2 years ago. But I'd certainly agree that those who made the effort to attend seemed to have a great time, as I'm sure they will in Scotland.

[madmike]

Simon - old age and vino rosso methinks, what year is it anyway

Blonde Bombshell you are spot on

[graeme]

...

Well, that would be the ENGLISH selection policy... Here in Scotland ... well I have no idea, it just seems pretty clear we're missing out .

Nopesport has lost its mojo

At least Gross' ability to start a punch up in a mortuary is alive and well!

[DaveR]

Well, this is all very interesting.
I have no idea how the Scottish school years differ from the rest of Britain. Could anyone explain the difference?

Does BSOA know about the difference?
Has anyone told them?
Has anyone from Scottish schools talked to BSOA or been to any meetings?

It seems a bit unfair to knock BSOA without getting the full picture.
No event is ever perfect and I am sure the rules woyld have been looked at many times.
You can tinker until the cows come home, but someone will always be unhappy.

BSOC is the only national schools competition and with between 600 - 100 entrants each year it is a great occasion.

Lets stop knocking it and encourage all runners to enjoy the day.

I'm not knocking the event, I think it sounds great and I'll be taking 3 runners to it tomorrow, and someone else will take them on Sunday.

However from the Scottish perspective it is a little odd that the two S1(Scottish) girls I'm taking will be running in different classes. It doesn't particularly matter to them but would be hard work for a school trying to put together a team under these rules.

[greywolf]

I have no idea how the Scottish school years differ from the rest of Britain. Could anyone explain the difference?

Wikipedia says: "Children start primary school aged between 4½ and 5½ depending on when the child's birthday falls. Scottish school policy places all those born between March of a given year and February of the following year in the same year group. Children born between March and August start school in August at between 5½ and 5 years old, and those born between September and February start school in the previous August at between age 4 years 11 months and 4½ years old. The Scottish system is the most flexible in the UK, however, as parents of children born between September and December can request a deferral for 1 year (not automatic, requires to be approved), whilst children born between January and February can opt to hold their child back a year and let them start school the following August." which may or may not make things crystal clear for you.

in practice it means that any given year group has kids with an age range of up to 18 months - add in different councils having different policies on deferrals etc (and don't even start on the holidays) and it's pretty much impossible to see how the Scottish school years could be used directly. As far as I'm aware actual ages are used for working out eligibility for Scottish champs in swimming and athletics - the teachers seem to manage ok.

of course whatever shortcomings and idiosyncracies the system up here might have, it doesn't seem to have any problem instilling a powerful sense of grievance

lets hope the sun shines and it's a great day

[AndyO]

If a non -o inclined sports teacher has to start asking everyone their birthdays ... they will decide orienteering is way too complex with all the other stuff and not bother.

Why don't they use YOB to define age groups anyway, like orienteering

[awk]

You should wait until next year when they try and sort out World Schools teams.

That's because the World Schools (which covers rather more countries with a yet wider range of systems than just Scottish and the rest of UK year bandings) uses yet another set of birth dates as their criteria, one that caters for the majority of member countries I gather.

So what the BSOA have done is got on and found a way of fitting in with the wider scheme of things.