BOF becomes English Again

[Rockaldo]

LEIOC are Club of the Year and being very active -their limitation is that they don't have great land to use but they do what they can with what they have got.

But how can you develope as a World Class orienteer with crap terrain? Running round a gym on Tuesday night & a school ground on Thursday isn't going to give a great deal of experience... These Talent ID days might turn up some pretty fit and talented juniors... but where is an 18 year old in LEIOC going to get elite experience... is LEIOC geared up for it's juniors to travel the country and Europe... who's going to cover the costs? Or are these all part of the Talent ID scheme.... of course it is possible to zip up the road to Doncaster airport... jump onto a Wizzair flight to Vilnius & get to some superfast technical orienteering for a lot less cost than a weekend in the green grot of the Scottish Champs

For most of my junior years I was in LEIOC as was my sister who now lives in Cambridge. She didn't do too badly in the middle at JWOC last year or the middle last weekend by the way. If you look at JWOC teams there is usually at least one from the East Midlands. Who has the best female result at JWOC... I have been supported by LEIOC to travel on GB tours abroad. People have to remember that our best results come in sprint races as well. Ok living in the lakes may help you to become a very good technician but if I was training someone up from scratch with running potential i'd train them to be a sprint orienteer. That is the discipline where we get medals historically (and relay).

I should probably also add that these talent id days are for 14-18 year olds. I imagine their university choice may be swayed, if they get on the pathway, to one of the coe's. One of which is somewhere near Glasgow.

[Mrs H]

Is there any information about how they are tragetting the 14-18 year olds?

[Gross]

if I was training someone up from scratch with running potential i'd train them to be a sprint orienteer. That is the discipline where we get medals historically (and relay).

Was waiting for that.... GB becoming a nation of sprint racers I can't be bothered doing the calculation but what's the score in WOC / WC / EOC on sprint medals to traditional medals?

[Gross]

to one of the coe's. One of which is somewhere near Glasgow.

Very unlikely to happen in future as I understand the newly elected (in a few weeks) government is going to insist that Scottish fees are increased to way above English levels to deter an major influx of English students taking advantage of Scottish education.... other students from EU countries will of course be welcome at much reduced levels...

[binman]

Anyone know where we can get more information on this Talent ID (and then presumably Development) Programme? It seems to me that this could be a very expensive and high-risk use of increasingly limited resources.

Would it right to assume that once identified, the lucky few are going to hot-housed and supported with coaching and funding to attend events (or will one of the selection criteria be that they have supportive parents willing to transport them around)?

The target group is 14-18, just the age groups that we tend to see disappear from orienteering as they get caught up in adult life with a whole bunch of new demands/interests - leaving home, getting jobs/further education, developing relationships and all the multitude of new attractions that adult life offers.

Has a risk analysis been undertaken in relation to commiting resources to this approach? What are the success measures - e.g. one UK squad member in five years' time? How much resource will be committed to the programme to achieve the success measure? Is this the best use of resources?

It seems to me that the most effective way to nurture young talent in our sport is through the essential support structure of parents and local club. Without these two pillars, no amount of propping up by the national talent manager is going to enough to keep our high-flyers up there.

Of course, this is all just theoretical nonsense to the talent pool in my neck of the woods - the closest session is 360 miles and a 13 hour round trip away...

[DIDSCO]

The idea that Britain is a nation of sprint orienteers is a myth. Over the last 5 World Champs the British team have got their best result in either the long or the middle. They haven't even been close to medalling in the sprint.

[Gross]

From BOF Performance Newsletter:

The Performance Programme will shortly be launching an exciting initiative to find the next generation of ‘World Class’ athletes who have the drive and passion to succeed in orienteering. Athletes need to be aged between 14 and 17 years old, have a background in competitive sport and want to become part of a talent development programme.
No prior experience in orienteering is required as we are looking for raw sporting talent with the capacity to develop under the guidance of British Orienteering’s Performance Director and National Talent Manager.

Maybe a Long World Champion of the future in the making ?

[greywolf]

you can prove (or disprove) anything with stats...but of the current and/or recent multi-WOC GB competitors, most got their highest WOC placing in the sprint: JS (1st), HM (3rd) HelenB (6th) SR (9th) Pippa (12th) Jon D (16th). GG has a 9th in both Long & Sprint, Oli hasn't run the sprint (best 20th - Middle)...the real odd one out is Scott who was 6th last year in the long (but has been 4th in the EOC sprint). Oh and in the last few years Murray & Ewan have also finished inside the top 20 in the sprint...
so yeah obviously it's a myth then

[Urban]

I'd be interested to know how and from where the 14-18 year olds are being persuaded to go to one of the assessment centres. If its via most (not all) school PE Departments I don't hold out much hope. From experience schools tend not to champion individual sport especially those they don't get or provide .
Are existing active juniors invited?
Second once identified how will these potential elite orienteers of the future be nurtured? Is it by clubs, regional squads or something else. If they have running ability how/where/who "trains" them in technical skills?
I understand the concept but I'm struggling with the implementation.

[simonbeck8848]

I see Bracknell is mentioned as one of the venues and I gather this initiative is aimed at people who are not confirmed orienteers but have the raw talent to become such. If that is the case I would have thought Star Posts, which is 1 mile S or Bracknell, would be an ideal area. ps did you have to give this thread such a rotten name, Gross?

[Ravinous]

This initiative was done before 10 years ago when Lottery Money was fairly new in the sport. I am surprised the readers have forgotten about it! I would be interested to hear Rose Saunders' view on doing it again. (The then Start Programme Manager). I am not aware of anyone joining the sport as a result but various teenagers from running and other sports had a very nice couple of weekends away in Travel Lodges running around Cannock Chase and places - if my memory serves me correctly.
I suspect the money/scheme is specific to this initiative and it is not a case of being able to divert the money elsewhere. I imagine those running it will say that it will be 'totally different in many ways to what they did before' - if they even know about the last attempt or have asked those who ran it last time' (although at the end of the day it is trying to get non-O'ing sporty teenagers to start O: the goal is the same.)
If somebody somewhere wants to throw money into this, then fine, why not. There is a chance something (one) might come of it this time, but I agree with many other sentiments here that there are probably better ways to use the money for developing the talent of the future. But it is not our money to decide - I imagine. Sporty teenagers are normally sporty and hooked on other sports. Persuading them to drop what they are doing and focus on O is a near impossible task imho. I only hope the initiative does not divert too much of the International/Talent staff time as there are higher priorities imho.
I think anyone who thinks that GBR does not do best in Sprint Racing is not immersed enough in British O Racing/Scene. Take WMOC last year - 8 medals in Sprint, 1 bronze in the Long. Our terrain and many of our races in the UK are 'sprint' terrain. (And the better terrain is where fewer poeple live and there are fewer events.) We grow up doing summer evening events around parks and small areas - prime Sprint terrain and training. We train with running clubs as we can't with O clubs so we run better on asphalt, in 5-8km Cross-country races on short grass, etc. When we race abroad, Sprint Races are in our comfort zone. At WOC, we qualify more people to the Sprint Final than other disciplines and they do better. Take the last WOC all qualified and all were top 20 (with Scott failing to punch bridge control but would have been 9th.) In the Long and the Middle, only 10 out of 12 qualified and only 2 of the 10 Finals runs were top 20. Just read CompassSport and be informed

[DIDSCO]

The point I was trying to make was the fact that whilst many British orienteers are strongest at the sprint discipline there is no reason why they can't compete over the middle/long with the right training/coaching over many years from being a young junior. The idea that Britain is a nation of sprint orienteers is a myth, when you've got runners like Gristwood, Fraser, Oli etc all fighting for top places in the forest
Lets be honest the sole of the sport lies is in the forest, fighting it out in tough physical technical terrain. Thats where I've got my best memories anyway.

[mallory]

My offspring is a current active highly ranked orienteer who is keen to apply to attend one of these days. Never been offered this testing before and would benefit from the analysis. As a XC inter-counties and English Schools 2010 and 2011 competitor should stand a chance but will being an orienteer exclude selection?

[229]

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[Gross]

I think anyone who thinks that GBR does not do best in Sprint Racing is not immersed enough in British O Racing/Scene.

Dids.... think Nick's getting at us