Compass Sport Cup

[Blonde bombshell]

The numbers that PG quotes for the CSC Final 2009 are not surprising if clubs are qualifying with large numbers in those classes.

I have tried to look at this years qualifying events. Only those held by SOC,HOC, LOK & MEROC were easy to go through so this is not a complete result. With reference to the numbers below I have these questions.

Why is the brown a large class and not green M and green W?
Why, when their combined numbers are greater than blue W, do the junior classes score 100,96,92?

Would a fairer weighting be decided by the number in the class on the day eg large = 40+, small = 10+, very small = -10 ?

Numbers are as follows:-
Large classes
Brown 26 31 48 23 Average 37
Blue M 59 54 77 76 59

Small classes
Blue W 13 14 27 17 18
Green W 25 25 40 37 32
Green M 37 41 34 43 39
Green V 26 28 17 21 23
L Green M 18 16 16 14 16)__ 25
L Green W 5 11 4 17 9)
Orange M 11 13 17 16 14)__ 23
Orange W 4 10 6 16 9)

Club breakdown of scorers
Large Small V Small
OD 3,3 3,3,3,2 2,2,2,2
HOC 6,6 2,3,4,0 2,1,1,0
WCH 6,6 4,3,1,4 0,1,0,0
SO 2,5 2,2,3,4 2,2,2,1
SN 3,6 3,1,3,2 2,1,3,1
SLOW 6,6 4,4,3,1 1,0,0,0
DEE 6,5 3,1,2,1 2,0,3,1
MDOC 4,6 2,3,4,4 0,1,0,1
SROC 6,6 4,1,4,2 0,1,0,1
LOC 2,4 1,4,3,3 2,2,2,2

[Mrs H]

I think Peter even thought of taking it a stage further, and making the CSC/T a one-day match for all clubs.

Why a one day match? why not a two day match for all clubs incorporating the relays as well - that really would show strength in depth

[Blonde bombshell]

PS Apologies if I appear to be rather intense, I'm not really

Also, my numbers look confusing now it's submitted - sorry

[Wayward-O]

Perhaps we should go further by having the British Relay Championships on the Saturday ... and another local event on the Sunday for those not in the Cup/Trophy finals. If it wasn't for limited daylight hours I might even suggest holding it after the finals.

I'd second the inclusion of of a relay. I've found more cameraderie and club spirit at a relay event than at the CSC heats and finals that I've attended.

[NeilC]

Would a fairer weighting be decided by the number in the class on the day eg large = 40+, small = 10+, very small = -10 ?

No.

As a club captain I have to decide on which course to run those club runners that are available to me. That decision is obviously influenced by the scoring structure for each course. Make that an unknown quantity (at the time of entry) and you add a big lottery effect.

[RanaldMacdonald]

Why a one day match? why not a two day match for all clubs incorporating the relays as well - that really would show strength in depth

BRC late Saturday am; CSC/T 1st round Saturday pm; (British Night Relay Champs ... for the more masochistic); CSC Shield (for those not in the finals) Sunday early am; CSC/T Final Sunday late am. Sunday late pm celebration of club achievements! Get home very late to Scotland ... sorry! Unless we make it a bank holiday weekend, recognising the differences between nations.

Everyone gets at least four runs in a wekend!

Which perhaps means it either needs to be in the summer or early autumn.

[SeanC]

Relay on the saturday sounds like a good idea, but making it the British Relay Champs presumably comes with the constraints of that competition - class combinations, expected terrain standards etc etc. It might not be ideal for a saturday event where the majority of clubs wont be attending.... and perhaps some who are just going to the CSC. Perhaps a new event for the saturday which just focuses on the club spirit/camaraderie aspect and is designed to fit in with the CSC final the next day ... which could be a relay event or some cunning new format? This could be a good opportunity for experimentation and trialing new formats every year?

[PMG]

Inter Club Score event ?
We used to have one which was a good event and great fun

Peter G - Ex Fixtures

[Catfish]

I think Peter even thought of taking it a stage further, and making the CSC/T a one-day match for all clubs.

Someone is talking sense for once, a brillant idea that should have been a least tried by now. To big for one club to manage though?

[NeilC]

I think Peter even thought of taking it a stage further, and making the CSC/T a one-day match for all clubs.

Someone is talking sense for once, a brillant idea that should have been a least tried by now. To big for one club to manage though?

I'm not convinced. The final is special since you have earned the right to be there and can enjoy the experience. If it were an open event each year I fear that it would become regionalised with clubs not wanting to travel more than a few hours to the event unless they were one of the 2 or 3 in with a chance of winning.

[andy]

I am disappointed by clubs that decide to enter but then opt out of the final despite knowing exactly where it is when they entered.

I am disappointed that you take this view. Inter-club competition is excellent for club comeraderie and this is exactly what the Scottish round of the CSC gave us, it was less than an hour away on a top-class (well at least it was when I last ran there) area, perfect! But where's the incentive to pay lots of money to travel/stay nearby for 6/7 hours for a single run? We're certainly not going to win because there's no way we can field a full team so why should we travel?

By entering we are losing nothing, but gaining a half-decent (local) club competition. Also, if we hadn't entered we wouldn't have changed things at all because the other Scottish 'club' wouldn't be travelling either.

[Mrs H]

Well I reckon it would be lots of fun to turn the CSC into a two day competition in the manner of the Home Internationals. One day relay one day individuals. Clubs could make a weekend of it, travel together, stay together and have a good time. A lot of clubs are sitting on a fair amount of money and could afford to subsidise the weekend one way or another - it would do as much for club development and esprit as any amount of club nights

[SeanC]

I agree with Neil that we shouldn't abandon the regional heat. If it's a two day competition in a different region, only the super keen will attend if the travel distance is far. Our regional CSC is great for club spirit. However if a club qualifies, particularly if it doesn't qualify every year, making the final is special and those that don't normally travel might be persuaded for the special day (though maybe not for two days).

An extra, but separate, inter-club competition on the Saturday seems like a good idea to encourage more to travel to the final.

Another option is a B final on the saturday, with runners up from the regional heats competing for the B prizes against other B clubs. Runners from the A final could then be allowed to run on the saturday, and the B competition runners on the sunday (as individuals). This would help those clubs like my own who never quite make the final.

[NeilC]

Inter-club competition is excellent for club comeraderie and this is exactly what the Scottish round of the CSC gave us, it was less than an hour away on a top-class (well at least it was when I last ran there) area, perfect! But where's the incentive to pay lots of money to travel/stay nearby for 6/7 hours for a single run? We're certainly not going to win because there's no way we can field a full team so why should we travel?

Actually wouldn't it be great if our National football team(s) adopted this approach? Turn up for the qualifiers and win some easy games, but then decide not to go to the finals thus saving lots of money and the ignominy of an early exit.

[frog]

In football that is their job though. Orienteering is my hobby and if I don't want to spend hours in a minibus to stay in a travel lodge, run for an hour or so, then return home I think that is fine, as well as better for the environment.
Perhaps we should have national events (England can split into regions if it wants) and then judge the best team on how many points they got in their national/regional event and the team with most points wins rather than making the heat winners travel to the same competition.
This would be fairer on clubs in the extreme edges of the UK (or Britain, not sure if NI enters the CSC) and more environmentally friendly.