Competition Review

[EddieH]

RJ asks [quote]How much 'fixture protection' should the Cadihoe Chase have?[/quote]

I cannot imagine any nearby region wishing to put an event on that weekend. That is common sense and natural protection. What would committees or legislation achieve? At best legislate tomake it as it is - at worst provide the SW with a guarantee so that should their standards slip they would be able to go on providing what is no longer wanted without competition.

I'm not really convinced there is any need for any protection, however beyond level 1 no BOF regulated protection has any function IMO. After all last weekend there were 2 British Championship level 1 events, yet a level 2 event was allowed closer than I have to go to the furthest SOL. I haven't heard anyone complain.

[IanD]

RJ asks

How much 'fixture protection' should the Cadihoe Chase have?

I cannot imagine any nearby region wishing to put an event on that weekend.

Actually the Caddihoe Chase and the City of London Race were originally scheduled for the same weekend. The Caddihoe moved to avoid the clash.

Maybe no formal protection is needed, but some co-ordination to at least make each event aware of the other before dates were published would surely be a good idea. It may have been an inconvenience for the Caddihoe to move after perhaps having agreed dates with landowners.

[awk]

Actually the Caddihoe Chase and the City of London Race were originally scheduled for the same weekend. The Caddihoe moved to avoid the clash. Maybe no formal protection is needed, but some co-ordination to at least make each event aware of the other before dates were published would surely be a good idea. .

That makes sense. Get the higher level events in place first, and then let others build up around them as they will (with the very big assumption that they can do this sufficiently far in advance).

I'm still interested though in how 'prestige' urban races and the 'best' of those 'traditional age-class based events' will be defined, how many events they will actually include, and what the implications are of being level 2 or level 3 (at present, given that table, I can't see any point in putting an event on at level 2 - it's all restrictions and no advantages). The way this is structured could have a big effect one way or another on how the events structure develops over the next few years.

[RJ]

I'm still interested though in how 'prestige' urban races and the 'best' of those 'traditional age-class based events' will be defined, and how many events they will actually include. The way this is structured could have a big effect one way or another on how the events structure develops over the next few years.

We're really not that far apart at all awk. I agree about the level 1 and 2 events being left to sort themselves out far enough in advance. As time goes on new events will appear as the nature of the sport changes. Urban is the example now, where top level, national standard, events are appearing to satisfy this new audience.

I see problems with some of the best 'regional' forest events when one or other of them is chosen as a FCC race. That might mean that a competing event will suffer and the organising club might not like it.

Further down the event structure in level 3 and 4 it just doesn't matter if there are clashes. These events satisfy a 'local' audience by and large and can stand on their own even with a fairly close alternative. These are the events where people learn to orienteer, so it is important to have a structure that permits development and progress, with preparation for the events of national importance.

[Mrs H]

Out of interest - who is actually going to be carrying out the competition review - the make up and pre-disposition of the review panel could have a significant effect on the outcome

[Scott]

Totally agree about those races in Chorley. I'm sure they were great races but with the circumstances in the UK it would be sensible to shift the British Sprint Champs to the Autumn season.

But the new rules for the combined British Sprint Champs, which take effect from 2011, say "1.3.2 The event should normally be held in late spring or early summer in order to fit in with the overall elite orienteering schedule."

How much consultation do the elite athletes actually get on (for example) the timing of competitions? Athlete representation is conspicuously absent from Events Committee and its subgroups (including Elite Competitions Group!) - hopefully this is something that could be addressed in the review of the structure of Events Committee.

Out of interest - who is actually going to be carrying out the competition review

I think Events Committee have overall responsibility for the competition review. The most recent EC minutes have a summary of how the review is supposed to progress from here:

Stage 1 that the staff team would pull together information from the survey and try to identify 2–3 competition structure options that can be put together to stimulate discussion.
Stage 2 the main document would go out to all groups and clubs and Associations for comment.
Stage 3 – options to go out to all for comment.
It was agreed that Elite and International need to be formally asked to comment as do Coaching and Development.

[graeme]

How much consultation do the elite athletes actually get on (for example) the timing of competitions?

Given the clash of BEOC and TioMila, it's not rocket science to figure out the two possibilities.

1/ No consultation
2/ Consultation, but the elites don't give a *** about British Championship anyway.

I do know how much consultation the senior competitions group got about this proposal though. That would be 1/ above.

[RanaldMacdonald]

As Chair of Senior Competitions Group I regularly ask seniors what they want from the event/competition calendar and for most it is a balanced programme of high quality events throughout the year, probably meaning from September to May/June, after which they can choose whether do take in a multi-day event, the White Rose or do something else.

Many I have spoken to - and I have made these views known at Events Committee - think the British Middle and Sprint events should be in the autumn, that the CompassSport Cup/Trophy final should be a level 2 event and that we need to give greater consideration to older competitors in the JK and British relays. A more balanced programme of Level 1 events would enable more clubs to put them on whereas now they are constrained by access limitations during the spring and summer. DVO was only able to put on the VHI on areas such as Eyam Moor and he Longshaw Estate because it was in November. These are all key issues which I am told the competitions review will consider and that the views of seniors will be given full consideration.

[Scott]

The "Phase 2" document for the Competitions Review has been circulated to clubs and associations - I have asked and am told that it will also be appearing on the BOF website very soon.

It's primarily an overview of the results from the survey and some current participation and membership statistics, together with a short set of questions about competitions aimed at associations and clubs - if you are on a club committee, please try to make sure that your club discusses and responds to the document (the deadline is the end of September, so there is plenty of time).

The survey results also make for pretty reading: there are few real surprises (apparently only 33% of people chose a course primarily to compete against people of the same age), although (probably fairly predictably) 77% of respondents were people who had been orienteering for ten or more years.

[SJC]

apparently only 33% of people chose a course primarily to compete against people of the same age

However it is still the most popular way of selecting a course !

[awk]

apparently only 33% of people chose a course primarily to compete against people of the same age

However it is still the most popular way of selecting a course !

Marginally! And it's a very comfortable majority who don't.

[RanaldMacdonald]

Marginally! And it's a very comfortable majority who don't.[AWK]

Quite - and I tend to enter a course on which I am competitive against those of similar ability and fitness. I'm not too proud that to admit that this means that I enter the Green course where I can compete against W55/60L or M55Ss. It also means that in the CompassSport Cup, where I am expected to run Blue, I didn't enter this year - which was fortuitous as I broke my little toe the night before! But I am disappointed that I can't represent my club which I am able to do in the relay events, though perhaps we need a handicapping system to broaden involvement.

My point is that competition should relate to the ability and current fitness of the individual and not just to their age. I want to enjoy my orienteering and create my own level of competition by comparing splits with those of similar ability. Orienteering is uniquely inclusive in allowing me to do this ... and long may it remain so.

[SeanC]

), although (probably fairly predictably) 77% of respondents were people who had been orienteering for ten or more years.

I'm not sure how much use the survey will be then. Those who have been orienteering for 10 or more years can't be too unhappy with the status quo.

I hope the review group will also have access to some more useful statistics - such as lists of clubs that have expanding membership and participation, and will then be able to determine what sort of events we* need rather than what we want. There might be the case, for example, for subsidising competitions known to encourage club spirit (such as the Peter Palmer relay and the Harvesters) if that is shown to be a key characteristic of expanding clubs.

*the 77%, the addicts.

[LostAgain]

I'm not too proud that to admit that this means that I enter the Green course where I can compete against W55/60L or M55Ss. It also means that in the CompassSport Cup, where I am expected to run Blue, I didn't enter this year - which was fortuitous as I broke my little toe the night before! But I am disappointed that I can't represent my club which I am able to do in the relay events, though perhaps we need a handicapping system to broaden involvement.

My point is that competition should relate to the ability and current fitness of the individual and not just to their age. I want to enjoy my orienteering and create my own level of competition by comparing splits with those of similar ability. Orienteering is uniquely inclusive in allowing me to do this ... and long may it remain so.

I would hope this attitude has little bearing on the future review. For me we should not lose sight of the fact that Orienteering is a Sport, not a game. Surprisingly for some you actually get more competitive the harder you train! Essentially you get out of it what you put in. Dumbing down the competitions so that anyone can feel competitive will reduce our sport to the likes of Snooker and Darts, no doubt skillful but hardly a sport.

I'm not surprised that some find "Sprint", "Short" and to a lesser extent "Middle" more to their liking as it reduces the differential between those who chose not to train and the atheletes. Giving the illusion of being more competitve.

[RJ]

.....clubs that have expanding membership and participation......

I reckon they are the clubs that have a regular weekly event structure, probably just a simple informal type event every week. I think orienteers in general would like to be able to run with a map every week, and if your club supplies that then you will have an active and enthusiastic club.

Steve Vernon's push for the weekly 'club house' type of activity from a central point every week is key! This gives a very social aspect to the club and allows new people to learn the skills at a slower pace.

Not sure that that is what the 'competition review' is all about. In fact I am still trying to get my head around what it was for.... what BOF were hoping to get from it. I don't think that a simple survey with a limited number of questions can provide the sort of answers that are needed. The quoting of the stats above are being used to underline different points of view!!