We don't belong here.

[EddieH]

Why so complex Ian? Why are we wanting a 3 year residency rule? If someone lives here however short, and joins BOF why on eaarth would we begrudge them a medal.

[IanD]

I got the impression that some people would be unhappy with a "random holidaying Swede" joining BOF (perhaps only £5 next year remember) just for the event.

[King Penguin]

Perhaps BOF member with UK address current and previous year (i.e. resident), to exclude someone who joins just before the current championship, to be eligible for titles / medals ?
Entry and recognition open to all. We should not prevent entries from e.g. students on a 1-year exchange.

[SJC]

the interesting thing is reading LW's response to Monika's very moving letter.

Mike Forrest's article in the last edition of Focus item includes the statement: 'There is a significant revision to the eligibility rules for the five British Championship events which changes the eligibility of long term British residents who are not British Citizens ...... Non British Citizens are not eligible for medals or trophies', which clearly implies that the rule is changing from allowing them to win the Championships to not being able to do so. (and the photograph of the non-British Matthias Mahr, 2011 M35 British Night Champion, on the front page of CompassSport illustrates the point).

Then Lyn West begins her response in Compasssport with 'The change to the rule on British Championships eligibility for 2012 was indeed taken at Board level', and then goes on to state that 'the Board was clear that the residency criterion should not be revisited'. But if non British citizens were eligible in 2011, not only have the Board revisited the residency criterion, they have completely changed it.

It reads like an attempt to justify the Board's action after the event, and hopefully won't fool anyone.

[MIE]

I had to read LW's response in CompassSport a number of times and still am unable
to reconcile it with the fact that Matthias was M35 British Night Champion
in 2011. LW's response is either totally incorrect with regard to the issue of revisiting the residency point OR Matthias was not M35 British Night Champion. The results of the event give Matthias as the M35 British Night Champion (and I am not aware of there being a protest) so.............................

[DIDSCO]

I don't understand why you should need to be a resident in Britain, have a British address, have a British passport, or even be a member of BOF to be British Champion.

I'm a British citizen, but haven't lived in Britain for 14 years, and thus have no British address. Next year my British passport expires and I probably won't renew it. I will instead probably take the passport of my country of residence due to dual citizenship. Im not a member of BOF but am a member of an IOF affiliated Federation. Could I be British Champion?

My son and daughter are entitled to have dual citizenship, and thus be British Citizens. They don't live in Britain, and may never do so. They will probably never bother to pay the money for a British passport but I will probably get them citizenship. My son says he is both British and Swedish. They will be members of an IOF affiliated Federation. Could they be British Champions?

I don't necessarily think a British citizen should need to be a member of BOF to be British Champion. I would have no problem paying a bit extra on any entry fee to avoid becoming a BOF member.

[aiming off]

A gentle reminder to the Board, if I may, regarding good Governance.

"Members' Interests

All our actions will be taken in our members' interests. We will establish systems and processes to enable us to understand members' needs and current satisfaction levels, and to make changes where necessary."

[graeme]

I am not aware of there being a protest

The protest was about the sprint. You can read the text here
It's reasonable to assume that the protest was against me, and on behalf of Matthias. However, nobody has ever formally contacted me about it.

I've been on the other side too, when living in the US as a USOF member I won the national long champs but didn't get the title. At the time I thought that was fine: the US Champion should be an American. I still think so.
It's great that everyone should be able to run BOC, but the British Champion should be British. The clue's in the title.

[LostAgain]

It's great that everyone should be able to run BOC, but the British Champion should be British. The clue's in the title.

It depends!
As has been said earlier, The British Open Golf regularly has none British winners. Wimbledon Tennis, British Grand Prix the list could be quite long.

It depends on whether we are trying to find a "British Residency Champion", a BO membership champion, or whether British refers to where the tournament is held and therefore open to all.

Clearly the BO Board has decided one way. Does the membership AGREE?

[Gross]

BOF made the BEOC etc open to all comers recently so they could achieve WRE status. Prior to that there were entry restrictions although I can't remember exactly what they were. So officially BEOC etc etc are Open Competitions & therefore it follows that the winner is the winner of the competition & should be treated as such....

Of course you can go down the road of the Scottish which for years has had the 'Scottish Champion' i.e. the winner of the competition and then the 'Scottish Native' which has restrictions place on it.... ask Big Jon how important the Scottish Native was to him

When it comes to other classes then they are not British Champions anyway... they are age group Champions .... which is different....

And to follow up on Didsco.... it's even more of a total nonsense that he's not eligible unless he renews his passport.... he's more English (and I meant to write that!) than 99.9% of the general population.

[mharky]

When it comes to other classes then they are not British Champions anyway... they are age group Champions .... which is different....

Well said!

I can't believe this hasn't come up before.

Veterans complaining about not "winning" the British Champs because of fictional "holidaying Swedes". You actually have to run 21 elite to be the British champion

[andy]

It's great that everyone should be able to run BOC, but the British Champion should be British. The clue's in the title.

As has been said earlier, The British Open Golf regularly has none British winners. Wimbledon Tennis, British Grand Prix the list could be quite long.

These are not British Championship events.

'Open'
Wimbledon is an international tournament
BGP is part of a series of international races

Saying these are british championships is like having BOC as a world cup and then saying only brits can compete/win, crazy.

I don't really know what the fuss is about, BOF got it wrong and anyone can see that. If there's any doubt let everyone run and award 2 prizes; British Champ and Course Winner. (or if you're crazy like us Scots, 3 prizes, I can't even remember what the 3rd one is, resident?)

[mharky]

1) Scot, 2) SOA, 3) Course Winner

[MIE]

I am not aware of there being a protest

The protest was about the sprint. You can read the text here
It's reasonable to assume that the protest was against me, and on behalf of Matthias. However, nobody has ever formally contacted me about.

Thanks for that Graeme, it passed me by
But with that info there would seem to be a "time-line" emerging together with,
what appear to me to be, a lack of proper communication from BO Office "down" to
the membership.

A. At some time in the past is was decided that the British Champs (any of them)
may be WRE.
B. it was realised that Decision A could result in one or more of the Championships
being flooded with foreign entrants who may decide to become instant BOF members to
save money on the entry fee and rush of with our trophies/titles.
C. In 2010 a committee and/or the Board decided to change the eligibility rules to
ensure that B did not happen, without fully following through the consequences.
D. Decision C was so well communicated to the membership that when Matthias won
the 2011 M35 British Nights nobody knew (or cared ?) that he was ineligible.
E. At the British Sprint s some 6 weeks (or so) later somebody who did know about the
change did/said something but it was deemed too late because of happening D.
F. The Board gets its knickers in a twist and has the verbiage of the eligibility clause
reviewed and once again announces it in large type with a fanfare so that all the
membership effected are fully aware.
G. The Board instruct the "hard-pressed organisers" to check the eligibilty of all those
entrants at the British Nights and the British Sprint/Middles. This is done by emailing
all entrants thus getting the information to Joe Orienteer, without any of the rationale
behind the change. (Don't know if the British Longs/Relays have done or are going to do
this as well.)

So if this really is the "time-line" then Toni, Monika and Matthias (amongst others)
weren't really eligible last year either -- only very few people were aware of it


Long live openness and transparency, together with communication and publicity

[madmike]

When it comes to other classes then they are not British Champions anyway... they are age group Champions .... which is different....

Well said!

I can't believe this hasn't come up before.

Veterans complaining about not "winning" the British Champs because of fictional "holidaying Swedes". You actually have to run 21 elite to be the British champion

Oh for Pete's sake
British Age Group Champions and they shortened it, we all know what they meant

PS: I think you have to do more than run 21E to be British Champ