Compass Sport Cup

[ianandmonika]

SYO won, partly, because of its strong junior performance, with course winners Katherine Hall and Aidan Smith, with the Adams and Fields not far behind . No disrespect at all to those who ran senior courses, but not running were GG, Oli J, Rob B, Mike Sprot, Neil N, Clare B, Tim T, Richard B etc due to the FRA Relays or knowledge of the area - apologies to those I have missed. SYO actually lost many of its top senior runners for the event, even though the host. Maybe the best all round club did win!!

[yted]

I was on the jury as a neutral controller at Burbage and I had a run on the Blue men trophy. As a juror, I was pleased that there were no complaints about the fairness of the event. As a competitor who is in the last year of the Blue men age band, I really enjoyed my course which was tough both technically and physically and certainly made good use of the area with an excellent long leg and testing fine navigation in the woodland areas. I had no problems finding the controls using the map and the descriptions and it was nice to have a Blue that took me longer than 50 minutes for a change!

[Mrs H]

How about a club is only allowed to enter 25 (+ a couple of subs) at the final. Same rules apply across a variety of courses/classes. Then those who feel like cannon fodder like Hoco don't have to travel and because the numbers are restricted everyone just goes to the final - no regional rounds required that might open it up a bit and create a bit of competition with in the club to get on the team.

[graeme]

Ratio S/J 6;1 7;1 4;1 5.5;1 6;1 12.5;1

Juniors = ages ~11-18, Seniors = ages 19-~75. ratio 8:56
So your point is?

Most of our juniors couldn't come because families already had made half term plans before the qualifier.

How about a club is only allowed to enter 25 (+ a couple of subs) at the final.

Or maybe only two members per family ?

[Blonde bombshell]

As you say, SYO had some excellent junior runs and their numbers were on a par or better then the other clubs.
My point is that I feel that the CSC scoring is weighted too much towards the brown course. In the final the numbers on this course were high because of the weighting in the qualifiers. However, in many of the qualifiers themselves the numbers entered did not seem to justify this weighting (unlike the blue men).

How about max of 4 scores from any course (LG M/W = 1 course, orange M/W ditto, must have at least 1 male/female if 4 used).
Blue men score 100,99,98 etc
Everyone else 100,98,96 etc

[pete.owens]

You have to look into a bit more detail to get the overall picture.
In the case of DEE 4 of our juniors were running on senior courses so that 10 of our 25 counters were juniors contributing 42% of our points score. I think you would see a similar pattern for OD.

I agree that the weighting of points for Brown is too high - probably reflecting the age distribution of competitors from a long time ago. Again 4 of our (non-scoring) Brown runners were vets running up.

[Blonde bombshell]

And why did your juniors run up? Was it because of the higher scoring on the brown & blue men?
I had seen your M18's & 16's on the brown & blue, but there is a limit to how much I go through the results. There was no breakdown listed for which scorers were used for each club (seen in qualifying results).

[pete.owens]

Partly tactical & partly because that is the course they prefer to run.
We did have 4 entries on LG men and only 4 can count.
On average the scoring for blue men and LG men worked out the same
(ie 100 for first place, zero for last, 44 at colour standard)

[NeilC]

Does it really produce the 'best' club as the winner?

My inclination is that the top three in the cup final do represent currently the best three large clubs in the UK. If you disagree which clubs would you put up there and why?

I've been captain of my club for over 10 years now and do feel that the current rules work well. In recent years we have beaten clubs with much stronger Brown course runners by virtue of having more strength in depth across the other classes, and in particular the juniors. Plus of course the Brown is the open class and anyone can run it. Every year there are moans about the format but I've yet to see a solid proposal that would be an improvement - although I know that the Loofa has many ideas. As always though fell free to put a full proposal together and some committee will look at it.

Of course there are some age classes that are disadvantaged with respect to others and some (in particular juniors) who don't feel that they should be running their allocated course. However those are the rules and hopefully club members will respect the fact that they have been asked to run a particular course for the sake of the club. Admittedly I allowed our top M18 to run Brown this year despite the fact that he almost certainly would have scored more points on Light Green or Blue but then I knew that with the team available to me this year we were not going to be challenging for a top five place (our perennial target).

[Mrs H]

Or maybe only two members per family ?

Well it works really well at Interland (oh sorry forgot - Scottish people don't go in for that)- I know we could call it Intraland

[Spookster]

I had seen your M18's & 16's on the brown & blue, but there is a limit to how much I go through the results. There was no breakdown listed for which scorers were used for each club (seen in qualifying results).

It's fairly easy to see who scored. In the results list if the points shown are italic then it's Trophy, non-italic is Cup. If the text is bold those points are used by the club, but if not bold then they are not.
http://www.southyorkshireorienteers.org ... esults.htm

[seabird]

Does it really produce the 'best' club as the winner?

My inclination is that the top three in the cup final do represent currently the best three large clubs in the UK. If you disagree which clubs would you put up there and why?

I've been captain of my club for over 10 years now and do feel that the current rules work well. In recent years we have beaten clubs with much stronger Brown course runners by virtue of having more strength in depth across the other classes, and in particular the juniors. ..... Every year there are moans about the format but I've yet to see a solid proposal that would be an improvement .

I agree with Neil, and particularly about the factor that despite their apparent low representation Juniors can swing the result.

When my club last won the CSC, about 7 years ago, we had particularly strong Junior representation. It is probably no coincidence that at that time SYOs junior representation was weak, although their Seniors were, even then, very strong.

Now, in respect of Juniors, the tables are turned - although sadly the situation regarding Seniors remains unaltered!

[Blonde bombshell]

Thanks Spookster - I hadn't noticed bold/non-bold.
It also answers my question as well. With a max of 8 juniors allowed to count the top 5 clubs used scores from 5/6 juniors. So obviously large numbers of juniors weren't required. It was interesting to see some non-counters pushing scores down for other clubs.
I am not suggesting that SYO,BOK & OD are not the 'best' clubs. Just wondering if the present scoring at CSC is weighted correctly. No-one has yet managed to persuade me that the Brown course deserves the double whammy of 6 scores + 100,99,98 etc.

[graeme]

No-one has yet managed to persuade me that the Brown course deserves the double whammy of 6 scores + 100,99,98 etc.

18-44 - 26 years worth of club members run brown
14-17 - 4 years worth of club members run LG

So if you gave everyone a fair chance to be part of the club team, you'd have more than 6 times as many counters on Brown as LG.

I know we could call it Intraland

That's a great idea! and with fixed numbers of people we could even add a relay! Don't like "Intraland" though - how about "Home Internationals"? Then to stop arguments about 2/15/5 year age bands we could have separate ones for Juniors and Vets.
I wonder why nobody thought of it before?

[Gonzo]

While in no way wishing to not be pleased about GG winning a silver medal, Rachael and Hollie coming 19th and 28th at the World Cup or being upset about Derek 'leaving' BOF -- why is there no report of what was after all the 'Premier League Final' of Orienteering, the CSC on the British Orienteering opening page? I am sure there is room for all of them and I am equally sure that the average orienteer (whoever/whatever that is) is at least as interested in results from competitions that they can take part in or aspire to take part in as they are about the elite of our nation.