JWOC/EYOC selections

[Simon]

On another note entirely. I don't suppose anyone has any maps of areas around Strumica, Macedonia?

Suvi Laki North from the Strumica Open last year.

Also, you may want to contact Meat Market, who was at those races last year

[Scott]

I'd suggest including some of the real powers-that-be in BOF as well as the selectors themselves.

Selectors email addresses (performance section)
Board of Directors addresses

Delighted though I am to be receiving emails, I should probably point out that the Directors page on the British Orienteering website is a couple of weeks out of date, and I am no long vice-chair (or, for that matter, a member of any British Orienteering group or committee).

[DIDSCO]

Yesterday morning I was running close by Hökensås the area for the World Champs 1989 in Sweden. It was a good reminder of all the time we spent there on training camps as juniors in the 90's. The large groups of like minded British juniors, all up for training hard in fantastic terrain,having a good time, and dreaming of future success. Coaches that pushed you hard and helped you develop your technique without trying to assess whether you were a future world champ or what % you were behind the top Swede in one of the races. Coaches that realised how great things could be achieved in a miniority sport with a large group of likeminded individuals training together and pushing each other. Coaches that realised the importance of racing internationally, competing against the best, getting experience, and could help the juniors with the highs and lows but ultimately keep them motivated to keep sticking at it and reaching their potential.
Britain's most successful orienteer of all time came through this system - Jamie Stevenson, and two other athletes born 1974 and 1975 ended up with world champs gold and bronze medals - Jon Duncan and Dan Marston.

Does British orienteering, Sarah Hague, Duncan Archer et al really believe their system is right or are they just selling themselves to the powers above who hand out the cash.

[frostbite]

are they just selling themselves to the powers above who hand out the cash.

You can't blame Sarah for that. It's called being an employee. I also do what the people who pay me tell me to do (when I am not posting on Nopesport).

I liked the old system too, and I think it would be better for orienteering in Britain in the long term, but that isn't Sarah's responsibility.

[andy]

are they just selling themselves to the powers above who hand out the cash.

You can't blame Sarah for that. It's called being an employee. I also do what the people who pay me tell me to do (when I am not posting on Nopesport).

Let's not go into the blame game. There are various tiers of the system where the blame (for the perceived problem) could lie. The real issue is that this isn't the first time we've had this problem and nothing has been done about it. Hopefully something will be done this time around.

[DIDSCO]

I'm not blaming anyone. I asked whether British Orienteering inc. Sarah (coach) Duncan (selecter) actually believe that their approach is the best one or have they lost control of the sport and just doing what they're told by the money men. It's a fair point and I'd be interested to know the answer.

[greywolf]

It's clear that BOF have adopted the same one-size-fits-all model of junior development as every other sport:

http://www.anglingtrust.net/page.asp?se ... nt+Pathway

http://www.bef.co.uk/repository/downloa ... tor_V5.pdf

Presumably they work out their selection percentages on size of fish and how much daddy paid for the horse...

Maybe the real question is whether those in charge of junior development go along with this because they have to, or if they actually believe in all that bollocks.

[Urbanite]

For those juniors who have missed out on selection for EYOC etc. who should they be approaching for feedback? How do they know whether they were very close, close or a million miles away from selection? I'm guessing that those who said they were available/interested received an email saying 'the decision has been delayed' but subsequent to that what... Feedback is always good whether successful or unsuccessful and if worded correctly could be a motivator for those in the latter camp. Surely it wouldn't take much to send out some information/tips for improvement etc.

[Lard]

For those juniors who have missed out on selection for EYOC etc. who should they be approaching for feedback?

You'll probably get a wee graph with percentages. This day and age it's not so "good to talk" RIP Bob H.

I gather there is currently still dialogue between Martin Ward and various about the "concerns" some of us have with talent development. Keep up the great work folks!
I cried on Tuesday when I heard about the JWOC selections, I've already aired my concerns about how a BO controlled JEC will pan out (minimal representation).

I'm now working out how to cancel my BO membership whilst still retaining SOA & club affiliation - not as easy as you'd think! I think the SOA and JROS groups have still got their heads screwed on right and shall continue to support their efforts fervently.

I suppose I won't be able to run at the JK or BOC champs races - big deal.

[maprun]

Didsco and Greywolf, sadly the selectors seem to have become Gatekeepers who appear to have lost their own plot.

In 2013 6 girls are selected for JWOC. A year later and with only one of the 6 moving up as a senior, we are now told only 3 girls are at the required standard and point of their development to be selected for JWOC and this is in the athletes best interests - totally baffling.

I doubt anybody cares too much about the Pathway, talent squads etc. provided our juniors are given the opportunity to have international experience at the highest level, but to deny them when the money is available is beyond me.

[maprun]

On a postive note, Ithought the selectors, athletes and support staff did a good job at EOC, especially the younger seniors.

[afterthought]

I think that all the spots for JWOC should have been filled.

Me too, and evidently lots of others here who have better knowledge.

The point for me is it's almost impossible that JWOC-age athletes from countries like Britain will be as far on in their development as their age-peers from Scandinavia. There is nowhere near as much time, even with all the great work by the regional squads.

And an example of this point might be Thierry Gueorgiou, from a country similar to Britain in orienteering terms, who seems to have been 92nd and 100th in the individual races at his second JWOC (thanks Maprunner database.)

I normally think that if you give the selectors a fifty/fifty choice between yourself and someone else then you can't really complain.

I commend this to junior athletes (and their parents.) 2014 selections are now done, and it may or may not be different next year, but concentrate on what you can do yourself.

Long distance can be tricky until you're older, but look to mix it in sprint, middle and relay whenever you can. So consider getting yourselves on the start line for open classes at the British Relays in four weeks time (travel and exam revision not withstanding) and show you're up for racing head-to-head against top orienteers. There aren't so many opportunities in Britain.

Well done to those selected and commiserations to those who weren't.

Nice to see Ciaran Allen and Oli Williams helping Deeside to 4th in the JK Trophy. Looks a particularly good run from Oli, only a minute down on the best for second leg.

[Anne]

Sent my email this morning, with the following key points:

- if the current selection policy results in the recent women's selections, it's the policy that's at fault rather than the women
- the %-behind-the-winner method is severely flawed
- the selectors seem to be sending a clear message to the girls who missed out: they would rather risk having no women's relay team than name anyone as a reserve
- the men's selections - I don't know the background, but if selections were based on JK results alone (and of course I know that they aren't), I feel that at least two of the men's team would be different. How fair is it to name selection races and then overlook some of the athletes who perform well at those races, and who might not have had the opportunity to prove their international form in the past?
- finally, the absolute necessity for a selection process that the athletes trust and feel to be fair. If an athlete doesn't have this trust, it's hard to find motivation (especially as a junior) to keep up the hard work.

[Duncan]

Reflecting on things, I think a lot of the objections on this thread are not around the selections per se, but with the selection policy and what is the purpose of sending teams to JWOC etc.

The objective of The Policy is to support The Programme in the achievement of its targets. In particular The Policy aims to support the development of athletes who show the ability or potential to produce top ten results at the World Orienteering Championships in the current season or in future seasons.

There is more behind it than that, e.g. one of the Sport England targets for funding of Talent and Elite Development includes top 20 JWOC performances. But you get the idea. Anyway, I am pretty happy that the selections are in line with the current policy. (That isn't to say anyone not going to JWOC this year won't ever make a 10 top at WOC or top 20 at JWOC mind, it is about the right competition at the right time on the way there.)

What I think a lot of people are objecting to (and no doubt they'll tell me if I'm wrong here...) is they think the policy should actually be to give as many aspiring junior orienteers as many opportunities as possible (i.e. fill all the places). I also agree that is a great target to achieve somehow. But it can be difficult to do everything, e.g. there have been instances of less committed athletes at internationals distracting the performances of others. So changing the GBR policy is not necessarily the answer. Things like JROS tours, home internationals, Interland etc. do an excellent job of bridging the gap for example.

On JEC, one objection I've heard to JROS running the GBR team (and taking a full team regardless of ability) is it might devalue the notion of earning a GBR vest (vs. gaining one in a JWOC team). Maybe we should compete at JEC as home nations instead, which would solve that problem at least??

[Lard]

JROS were always intent on applying a suitable and appropriate selection policy for JEC. Just with a wider net than BO's (and probably less ambiguous)

EYOC/JEC/JWOC/Summer camps - surely the whole point is to offer opportunities to a wide and diverse talent pool (the base of a pyramid) that's suitably large enough to allow athletes to develop over time and at various stages - make sure we catch folk and keep them involved and included - most will not go on to become senior internationals but the more you involve the more will continue orienteering in later life and bring their friends and family with them..
More podiums, More people....... It's not wise to narrow the pyramid so dramatically at such a stage in the pathway (oh God, did I say that?).

I'm sure someone else will say "we can't afford to open opportunities wider" - SEDS is a perfect example of doing a lot with very little. We did it before Lottery Funding so why can't we do it with Lottery Funding? Because some of us can't see the wood for the trees.