4 Levels

[Oldman]

The polarisation already seen in the many replies to this thread suggest to me that making a further change to a 4-level structure would waste much time and effort for some benefits but also some losses. That time and effort would be better spent on marketing events better and would also leave a different group of people unhappy.

Why not leave things as they are and let it settle down a bit? We can then see more clearly whether yet another change is justified, and if so, how to do it.

From my viewpoint and several I've spoken to, the change has been almost invisible in terms of having events to go to and knowing what to expect at them: does all this event level stuff really matter to most of us?

[pete.owens]

All those in favour of 4 levels thinking of voting for the ammendment at the AGM should probably check exactly what they are voting for. It is one thing to create a new level and quite another to define where the new split in the structure should be.

Some seem to want to divide L3 events into local and very local events
Some seem to want to subdivide L2 "proper" regional and not-quite regional
Some seem to be nostalgic for traditional badge events
Some even seem to want the split to correspond almost exactly with the L2 requirements in the new event guidelines

However, the AGM proposal (as far as I understand it) is to create a level for a limited number of events of national significance (things such as the Harvester, high profile urban events and a few of the very best cross country races) - pretty much equivalent to the old C2 events.

I suspect that should the motion pass and be implemented by BOF exactly as specified, then in a years time many of those now calling for a 4 level structure will be calling for a 5 level structure.

[EddieH]

Pete.owens, I had just been thinking that it needs someoneto summarise the 2 very different reasonsfor wanting 4 levels, and you've just done it.

Personaly I am not in favour of the AGM motion splittingthe current level 2. Like many however I am in favour of splitting the current level 3 into 2. Unfortunately people in my camp may well vote for the motion and not get what they are looking for.

[awk]

Like many however I am in favour of splitting the current level 3 into 2.

So do that locally!!!!

I repeat (again!). If you want differentiation at level 2, then that's for the association to sort out. If you want differentiation at level 3, then that's for the club to sort out. It is NOT a national issue.

A question. Why are you (and all the other level 4 protagonists), so determined to set, via BOF, the quality standards for my club's local events, and my association's competitions?

[Clive Coles]

You provoke me again AWK ( I had thought that enough has been said). But you misrepresent us by the comment ....

Why are you (and all the other level 4 protagonists), so determined to set via BOF the quality standards for my club's local events, and my association's competitions?

That's the last thing I want.

I would be quite happy to see.

Level 1 ~ as currently proposed

Level 2 ~ Ranking events run under BOF defined guidelines supervised by Associations

Level 3 ~ Non-ranking events run along similar colour coded lines to level 2 but with more relaxed guidelines. Quite happy for these to be set by Associations. BOF member Discounts wouldhowever still be the norm.

Level 4 ~ Local events run by clubs however they wish. Low flat fee structure being the norm.

That gives clubs the flexibility to stage what they want under guidelines which suits their members needs (and in the case of some small clubs ~ their ability to deliver).

Associations must be free to use which ever events they wish for their leagues and championships. The BOF Events committee were out of order by seeking to instruct clubs to move their league fixtures and competitions into level 2 ~ that was none of their business.

Quality is a difficult concept to define ~ it means different things to different people. Delivery of quality is very dependant on the area and the Planner and Controller ~ this is often where experience tells.

Good planning can turn an ordinary area into a top notch event. If a club wants their all Sunday morning events to be quality ranking events let them stage them all to level 2 guidelines. Quite happy with this. A club decision.

I liked the original suggestions where level 2 events were controlled by L2 controllers and level 3 events were controlled by level 3 controllers. I agree we needed some temporary flexibility over the insistance of L2 controllers controlling L2 events as we need time for event controllers to convert to becoming L2 controllers. Under my suggestion clubs would be free to control their L4 events as they thought fit. No BOF interference !

[RJ]

......If you want differentiation at level 2, then that's for the association to sort out......

No it isn't! Level 2 should be consistent throughout the country. National guidelines should prevail. There will be various formats and types of event here, but there is no reason why there can't be a general set of guidelines set for national use.

Level 2 events are attracting a national audience and you are expecting people to travel. They should know that there is some consistency between EMOA Level 2 events and ones being planned in NWOA. In particular these level 2 events need to be separated away from other similar types of event that are not intended to have a national audience, which will be Level 3. Club events, Level 4.

Just think London City Race, JOK Sprint, Harvester. All Level 2.

[Oldman]

They should know that there is some consistency between EMOA Level 2 events and ones being planned in NWOA.

I can't see this as ever being sensible. The nature of the NWOA and EMOA (and other XXOAs) terrains makes this extremely unlikely, in my opinion. Best planning (given the terrain's potential) and event non-race standards could be similar, but the important bit, in the forest, rarely could be. Perhaps this is a case of NWOA wanting to preserve the exclusivity of events in their area since few other Associations wll be able to offer anything similar (or at best, rarely)? Just let the participants decide: they already do that regardless of event structure!

[awk]

Level 2 events are attracting a national audience and you are expecting people to travel.

No they are not, at least not because they are level 2, and that is the point. Where they attract a national audience, it is because of the quality of the competition/brand, not because they are per se level 2. It's the value added bit that clubs/associations or whatever have added. So leave it to them.

They should know that there is some consistency between EMOA Level 2 events and ones being planned in NWOA.

Beyond what is currently defined in the guidelines, I thoroughly disagree.

In particular these level 2 events need to be separated away from other similar types of event that are not intended to have a national audience.

They are already, by dint of their brand.

Just think London City Race, JOK Sprint, Harvester. All Level 2.

[/quote]
Exactly - and every one is prestigious because of its brand, not because they are a particular level. They could be level 3, or 1, it doesn't matter two hoots - people would go because of their name. They underline exactly why BOF regulations separating them off is neither desirable nor needed.

[RJ]

Yes, awk, I see exactly what you are saying. My point is that newcomers and those who are moving up from club only orienteering will be attracted to....
Level 2, London City Race much more so than...... just London City Race on its own. The level is part of the branding.

So, tell me again..... why are we bothering with levels at all??

[Mr Chips]

I really can't see why we have had to put up with all this endless rebranding. It hasn't made it easier for newcomers to understand the structure of our competitions and it has baffled and alienated a lot of experienced orienteers. It's pretty clear to me that the following types of event exist, as they have done since I started orienteering too many years ago*:

(1) National championship level (JK/BOC) – flagship events for British orienteering – age group competition
(2) Regional championship level (including Scotland, Wales and NI on equal terms with NWOA, etc) – flagship events for regional associations – age-group competition
(3) Events formerly known as “Badge/Regional”** (both unsatisfactory names IMO) – flagship events for clubs – a club typically holds one per year assuming they can find suitable land and manpower – age-group competition
(4) Events formerly known as “District/Colour-coded” events (again, needing a better name) – range of courses at least Yellow to Brown (Wh & Blk if land allows) – clubs hold as many per year as land and manpower permit – not age-class based.
(5) More modest events – anything that doesn’t come up to the above standard.

(* I am confining myself here to events where you are supposed to start at different times and punch the controls in a specified order.Other types of event don’t fit this categorisation and there is no need to shoehorn them into it, e.g. relays, night events, score events, international events.
** Ignoring the period of "National" events which just gave some of the Badge events an inflated status that many of them did not deserve.)

Ranking points may be earned at the age-class based competitions. Each event should be organised, planned and controlled by people who have gained sufficient experience at the level below.

I make that five types of event, each distinctly different in formality from those above and below. Dare I suggest that we label them C1 to C5?

[mharky]

What would you rather go to? A local event on Loch Vaa, or a national event on Star Posts?

Levels set the minimum standard for what one can expect at an event. Whether the event meets these standards is a different matter. What is important is not that we have 3 or 4 levels, or whether they are called national/badge or level 1/2 etc. What is important is that the requirements set by whatever levels we have, according to our NGB, are actually met. That is the bigger issue surely.

This thread looks a bit like politicians arguing whether motorways should be 70 or 80mph, rather than debating how they will actually get people to drive at 70 or 80mph and not above.

Orienteering events will be better if standards are met, small differences in these standards are immaterial and won't change anything. Experience orienteers know what events they want to go to, inexperienced orienteers go to events that are near to them or that are recommended by their club.

[awk]

On the whole I agree with you mharky. The reason why I argue so tenaciously for 3 levels is that they show who is primarily responsible for the quality assurance.

Clive - you can already have what you want now. Level 1 and Level 2 stay the same. Your level 3 and 4 are subsets of the current level 3, and can be set within EAOA by the clubs co-ordinating at regional level. It doesn't need BOF to decide those for you. Go ahead, do it now!!

I'd be interested to know why you think BOF is forcing you to hold regional competition at L2. Go ahead and hold it at L3 - set the standards, and then clubs simply have to achieve those if they want to hold gallopen events. Pretty straightforward. You can even use a mixture of L3 and L2 if you want.

RJ - for beginners, the levels are irrelevant. They will go because it's local and catering for them. London attracts loads of local beginners because of the marketing SLOW does. Harvester attracts hardly any because it's not aimed at them. To be honest, they should be irrelevant to most of us (and are to me) - they are simply an organisational structure.

[NeilC]

I see that the authors of the AGM resolution have now written to all clubs with an article intended for club newsletters, urging members to vote for their proposal. In the interests of fairness anyone fancy penning the case for the opposition? AWK?

[awk]

Thanks NeilC. I'll wait to see what they've written. I am more than happy to write something, but I am also bearing in mind that I won't be at the JK this year.

[NeilC]

The text that has been sent to clubs from the authors of the CompassSport article:

Why British Orienteering Needs a 4 Level Event Structure

At the 2010 British Orienteering AGM, to be held on Saturday 3rd April 2010 at the JK, we are tabling the following Proposal:

That the current BOF Event Structure be amended, with effect from 1st January 2011, from a 3 tier structure to a 4 tier structure, the Levels to become:
· Level 1 Events - British Orienteering's major events, including the British Championships (Sprint, Middle, Long, Relays) and the JK.
· Level 2 Events - comprising a limited number of high quality events, including the best of the traditional age-class based cross country events, high profile city races and the Harvester Relays.
· Level 3 Events - comprising a wide range of typical Sunday morning events for competitors largely from within their Region, including colour-coded cross country events (former District events), urban races, etc.
· Level 4 Events - small scale events aimed at providing local competition (e.g. within a club) and increasing participation. e.g. introductory events, club summer evening events.

This Proposal, if carried, will have the effect of creating a 4 tier Event Structure, by the insertion of an additional Level to enable a clear distinction between those events aimed at attracting competitors primarily from within the Region, and those aimed at a wider audience.

Following the introduction of the new Event Structure, clubs are now being encouraged to register their former District Events in the new Level 2, as Regional Events, instead of in the New Level 3, as Local Events, as was initially intended. Merging the former Regional and District Events into a single tier of Events of widely differing qualities, has created a number of problems, all of which may effect the quality or cost of our orienteering, including:

· Identification of Quality Events: How is a competitor to decide which of these Events are worth travelling to if they are all now described as Regional Events?
· Entry Fees: If Clubs choose to register their former District Events as Regional Events, they may well be tempted to increase their entry fees for these Events.
· Embargoes: The requirement for a 12 month embargo on areas to be used for Regional Events has been dropped, to permit former District Events to be registered as Regional Events.
· Controllers. Level 2 Regional Events should be being controlled by Grade 2 controllers, but there aren’t enough of them for all the former District Events, so now experienced Grade 3 Controllers are being allowed to control Level 2 Events. Newly qualified Grade 3 Controllers can only control Level 3 Local Events, many of which don’t need a controller at all.

The creation of a separate Level for the best of the old Regional Events, along with other events aimed at a national audience, will enable all of these, and other, problems, which didn’t exist under the old Event Structure, to be easily resolved.

To get our Resolution adopted at the AGM, we need your support, either to attend and vote at the AGM, or to use your Proxy Vote, details of which will be sent out to you by British Orienteering. Few members of British Orienteering have yet had an opportunity to express their opinions on the current Event Structure. Use your chance to do so now.