Are our Elite spoiled brats or prima donnas?

[Dave]

Dids, is bang on the money.you'd get willing elites turning up and being appreciative of your event, but you still need a bit of sense and if you're wanting a big elite turn out time your event better (and don't slag them all off)

[Freefall]

I suppose my question might have been seen as a little inflammatory but Mharky didn't need to send the boys round to convince me that it is more the structure and timings of our events rather than the athletes themselves that is the main issue. This forum debate has been brought to a wider audience and I hope that next year we might see some fundamental changes that benefit the organisers of major events. With regional variations it is a hard one to resolve, but certainly I would have liked to see M/W21 (Elite or otherwise) lumped in with M/W35 for the Northern Champs.
What is impressive is that despite the races not featuring as important for WOC build up Mark Nixon has won the Scottish Night Championships and SOL1 (as well as runner up in the Scottish Sprint Races). Hope the selectors are watching..

[Spookster]

What is impressive is that despite the races not featuring as important for WOC build up Mark Nixon has won the Scottish Night Championships and SOL1 (as well as runner up in the Scottish Sprint Races). Hope the selectors are watching.

I expect the selectors will be watching the WOC selection races.

[Mrs H]

Mmm! I may open a small book to take bets on Purley's previous persona

[Jill]

Are we not missing something vital here, how many 'elites' are there in Briton? And what percentage of that demographic would you like to come to your event, 50%? Realistically that probobaly equates to not that many people. Why would you have higher expectations of them than any other age base, if they are to just 'enjoy their orienteering week in week out' like the rest of us? I am pretty sure you do not get 50% of the M/W50 demographic to the same event. I could be wrong we could have a very dedicated large proportion of M/W50 but some how i doubt it. If elites want to come they will come i do not think there is much you can do about it besides the effort that Dids mentioned, so just get on with focusing on the enjoyment of everyone else.

[AlanB]

the 'elite' are still amateur sportspeople, who should be orienteering for their own enjoyment just like the rest of us.
I am sure we would also be more willing and appreciative if we had our entries paid and transport provided.
Oh, and how many people know that the 'elite' get discounted clothing and shoes - sees like the rest of us are subsidising them of ther £80+ shoes

Looking at the poll results on the 'the elite' thread - it seems 1 in 5 people think they are prima donnas!

By the way, is Wharncliffe now a good enough area for them, as last time they didnt wish to take part at the British as it wasn't deemed a good enough area!?

This is an issue that affects every sport, though: the differing needs, motivations and rewards of the higher performing participants, and the rest of us.

For me, as a plodder, I want an adequate fixture list that can keep me interested, allow me to get some serious exercise and enable me to progress (albeit to a limited degree) and be able to measure that progress.

I can't speak from experience, but for those at the top surely it is all about winning or at least getting as much out of mind and body as is humanly possible. To do that, and to be able to compete with elite athletes throughout Europe and the world, they have to structure their lives and activities as much as possible - and that includes planning carefully their competitive appearances. The trouble is, as with elites in other sports, that everyone, especially event organisers, wants a piece of you whether it's in your interests or not. Such athletes have to be able to say 'no', and if that appears to us lesser mortals (in the orienteering sense!) as arrogance then tough!

When I participated in club athletics, I would occasionally take part in events such as the 12 stage road relays. Steve Cram would occasionally turn out for his grass-roots club, Jarrow & Hebburn, but never when he was in an intense part of his training for a major championship.

As for the help and assistance for our top participants, well that is how competitive sport works. If I play for my local park footy team I'll be expected to pay for the privilege; should I be good enough to play for Real Madrid they'll not only waive the subs but pay me vast sums for my trouble.

I don't think anyone can begrudge the relatively little bit of help our elite orienteers receive in the way of subsidised travel, entry or, especially, clothing. As a plodder, I need footwear that will protect my feet and stop me slipping too often, and clothing that will prevent hypothermia setting in when I go wrong. I don't need the latest technology that will save grammes off my clothing weight or reduce my time by seconds. I also don't need to travel that far to get appropriate competition.

I think we should give 'em a break!

[AlanB]

Also, as others have also mentioned I think, the sport's decision makers need to get together with the top athletes when deciding the structure of the season.

[RJ]

Well, I'm not sure that we can do a lot of scheduling for the clientele and the event timing.

For instance.... the Eskdale Tarns event on March 20th has a Black++ course, specifically aimed at the M21E runners. We wanted to give them the chance to run the 90 minute winning time Classic distance course. That was the plan!!

But BUCS clashes! Permissions and club schedules along with regional fixture congestion determines the timing in the end. Ah well!!

[awk]

Oh dear. As a club member, I get discounted clothing and shoes from our local retailer. I would just so hate it if I thought for one micro-second that poor purley1 might be subsidising me.

[pete.owens]

Yes, if entering a Level A event run in accordance with the rules, you can expect a litho printed map.

Not next Sunday at the southern champs according to the final details.

[FATBB]

How many people know that the elite get discounted shoes and clothing?? You must be having a laugh here... Ever heard of sponsorship. Inov8 SPONSOR the GB team. THEY subsidize shoes. Noname SPONSOR the GB team. THEY subsidize clothing.

The elite ARE amateurs. They DO take part in orienteering through enjoyment. Every elite in Britain puts a hell of a lot of their own time and money into their participation, and development of the sport. They have to if they aim to compete at a world level.

[Tatty]

Having 2 elite offspring I can assure Purley1 that they do not get much in the way of kit sponsorshop, especially shoes. How long do your O shoes last? They go through at LEAST 1 pair a season, plus 2 pairs of good quality training shoes, which are NOT subsidised. Our local "proper" running shoes used to rub their hands with glee when I appear with the boys, plus their brother as they be picking up several hundred pounds, whihchI had to pay

[Spookster]

Yes, if entering a Level A event run in accordance with the rules, you can expect a litho printed map.

Not next Sunday at the southern champs according to the final details.

Which is presumably why the final details also say "Laser printed by Print5 by permission of British Orienteering". I take that to mean that Map Group has approved non-litho printed maps, which is what Appendix H allows it to do.

[Homer]

Yes, if entering a Level A event run in accordance with the rules, you can expect a litho printed map.

Not next Sunday at the southern champs according to the final details.

Which is presumably why the final details also say "Laser printed by Print5 by permission of British Orienteering". I take that to mean that Map Group has approved non-litho printed maps, which is what Appendix H allows it to do.

True, but that makes two out of two Area Championships so far this year. I'd be interested to hear Map Group's reasoning behind these relaxations to the rules. It seems a bit hard on the organisers of the Northern Champs if they are going to the extra expense of litho printing.

[epocian]

. Our local "proper" running shoes used to rub their hands with glee when I appear with the boys, plus their brother as they be picking up several hundred pounds, whihchI had to pay

First time I've known 'shoes rubbing their hands with glee!'