JK & British Relays

[Fat and Forty]

Can anyone explain the logic of having a cheaper rate for early Relay Entries, as a Club Captain it is hard enough to generate teams when you know who is going to an event, I don't want to waste the clubs money by entering teams that I may have to scrap if I cannot find runners, but at the same time feel that I should try and take advantage of the cheaper rates. Given that Orienteers tend to enter events late, surely it would make sense for the Relays to have one fee and the same closing date as the last individual.

I fully accept the reasoning behind cheaper rates for individuals as the organising clubs need some money to pay upfront expenses

[MIE]

I fully accept the reasoning behind cheaper rates for individuals as the organising clubs need some money to pay upfront expenses

Ditto for Relays

Now that entries are online there is also the "incentive" for the organiser to get the money paid by the service provider (of the entries system) as early as possible, and before the event when all the monies need to be paid out.

Online relay entries, like those for individuals, makes the life of the entries sec. easier (not easy) but the drawback is that the monies hit the event bank account later.

[Snail]

The problem is often that you know much earlier approximately how many teams you want to enter, based on early individual entries, but until you have your 'full' list of people willing to run in the relays you don't know how to combine them, and hence which courses to enter.

A sensible compromise would be for relay organisers, and entry systems, to accept early entries on a 'course to be decided later' basis. With some form of carrot/stick to ensure they select a course before maps are printed - or perhaps a default to something like Short Open.

Organisers get some money early; clubs get some cheaper entry fees.

[RJ]

The more you listen to the 'competitor' and in this case... the team manager.... and devise your system to cater for THEM, the more chance you have of a good entry.

Events and sports that put forward 'organisational problems' as their reasoning just won't survive! Manage your event so that you look after your customer.... the competitor.

You don't need money up front to pay for 'early' expenses. What a load of rubbish. All clubs/organisations have reserves specifically for this purpose. Printing maps has a deadline.... but we do know how many were needed last time!

[djc]

Remember that the event income has to come from somewhere: if you have a flat fee structure then it's going to be at a higher rate than the early entry fee you're currently being offered.

[SeanC]

I can't see the problem. Giving a discount for early entries encourages clubs and captains to get organised earlier. Leaving things later means people are more likely to find something else to do - therefore a sensible early entry discount raises participation.

[RJ]

........ Leaving things later means people are more likely to find something else to do ........

Sorry Sean I don't any logic in that at all. I want to enter the 'event', not just 'something' that is on that weekend. Leaving it later allows team managers very much greater flexibility to deal with sickness, injury, and competitors who now find themselves available.

The less 'flexible' your event the less likely you are to encourage participation.

[RJ]

....... to come from somewhere........

Quite right djc.... from the competitor!! Look after THEM and they will look after your event's finances!

[mikey]

If I was a JK 2009 organiser I would be getting pretty peed off with the constant sniping about different aspects of this event.

[SeanC]

The logic is that if my club captain starts pushing a relay event early (because of a financial incentive), then in theory more people in the club will decide to go to the relay event (and whole orienteering weekend). If the captain leaves it later then the less keen club members may have decided to go adventure racing, have a long lie in, had that weekend taken by non-orienteering partner for visiting relatives blah blah.

A sensible early entry discount doesn't mean organisers can't allow late entry or late changes, but RJ I take your point about the problems caused by injury etc.

My wife's hockey club solves this problem by having reserves. Maybe we should make more use of reserves?

[seabird]

Sorry Sean it just doesn't work like that.

If you had Club Captains who did not get stuck in from the word go you would not have many teams. Historically the problem has actually been getting very late details of the relays to publicise. I've had many a time to publicise the event without any idea of entry fees or deadlines. This years JK team are ahead of the game on that one.

No matter how hard and early a club captain publicises a relay, many club members will not enter until the last minute - lower fees for early entry or not. Last year was a clear illustration of this. Luckily the organisers were prepared to accept changes in in the courses that were entered at the last entry deadline.

I would imagine many (if not all) Club Captains will have had to ring round furiously on the final week before the deadline trying to encourage the people who go to the individual days but not the relays to fill the gaps that have emerged.

The only sensible option that has been suggested - if staggered entry fees are required for the relays - is for clubs to indicate how many teams will be entered at each of the deadlines, but only have to declare which courses are entered on the final deadline.

[RJ]

Lets hope that at some stage we will eventually have a properly interactive website that will allow 'nominated' club personnel to enter details such as relay team entries when they want and when they are ready. Why do we make such a meal out of, potentially, such a simple matter.

And if the site was properly interactive you could see what the other clubs were doing and where the real 'competition' at the relays was going to be. It could be so much more exciting and FUN!!!!

[SeanC]

yes, you're no doubt right Seabird. I guess given the last minuteness of many of us you would have to make the discount rate date quite close to the final entry date for it to have any real effect. Someone had to try and answer the question though

Snail's idea looks good. I guess the problem is that this gives the organisers uncertainty over numbers running each course?

[Freefall]

As one of the JK organisers I read the comments and it will be raised at the next meeting in early January. I guess we have followed what has been done before - I cannot say that is the best way but it has been the accepted way.

[mharky]

Is there actually a problem here? Because I can't see one. This is the biggest heap of crap since the last 500 topics started on this forum.