SI "wake up time"

[andy L]

Firstly, Id like to say I thought the British was very good this year, with good courses on both days and a tricky area well suited to a relay.

On Saturday at the British Individual, I started at 10.03 on M20E i.e. one of the earliest starts. I overtook Gareth Little, the first start on M20E on the way to control 2. When I arrived there I tried to dib one of the SI boxes. Initially, the box did not respond so I inserted it into the other box available. After about 1-2 seconds or so, the SI card read (v slow for a SI6 card). When i got to number 5, it was clear what was happening; I was now "waking up" controls (i.e. when the next competitor arrived the SI6 card would take a fraction of a second to punch).

All in all, I reckon I woke up around 10 controls on the course, most on the far side of the Blorenge bit where only the long courses went. If we assume a 1 second "wake up" time, this could account for a significant amount of time. I finished 4th on M20E, 1 second behind third place.

I did not complain because,
(a) I thought it was against the spirit of competition to try to use a minor issue to change major races
(b) The main reason I lost time was due to a 5 min error on one control
(c) I wasnt that bothered!

Is this acceptable at the British Championships??
Do I have a point or am I just moaning (bad workman etc...)??

Your thoughts please!

Andy Llewellyn
NOC

[brooner]

can see how when you're 1 sec down it is rather frustrating!

i'd say its just another issue with the (un)luck of the draw of an early start time, those at the back of the field also benefit from elephant tracks, other runners to guide them into controls, etc

i doubt much can be done about this, the controls that wake up have numerous benefits over the old ones which were on timers.

[Supersaint]

I found the same thing on the relay today as on the 1st leg of the Mens Open i got to a number of controls before anyone else, and frequently had to wait a number of seconds at each control for this to happen. We were 5 seconds behind 3rd place overall so again, this could have affected the results.
In the past when doing training events i've always punched the control i've been putting out to ensure it works which could prevent this occurring. Not sure if this is the norm, but could be something which could be done in future to prevent this happening.

[Rachel]

At this year's Welsh Champs, the controller and some helpers went round and "woke-up" all the SI boxes on the morning of the race.

[Oldman]

While observing the spectator control from the relay pen, I noticed that one of the two boxes there always seemed to cause the user to return to repunch or at least to hesitate. I decided to use the other one on my run, but when I got there, it was not free, so I punched the "problem" one. I now know what the problem was: there was no beep, only a flash. Having seen the other runners have problems and having definitely seen my flash, I ran on and all was well when I downloaded.

Question: why does a unit not beep sometimes? and is it fair to cause this hesitation for so many when it doesn't, and another unit at the same control was beeping?

[andy]

as someone involved with SI in events in scotland (inc. the 6 days) I do my absolute best to make sure planners / controllers do their best to wake all the units up prior to the first runners.
Your post is more evidence to support me so thank you

[Godders]

Andy - one problem I've come across as an early starter is that even thought the units had been woken up they had then gone back to sleep by the time I got there.

[HOCOLITE]

From Ancient Grouse

Point One- The new units can be programmed to behave like the older bulky ones (in competition mode), which probably should be done for an event of this size. If nothing else to ensure that all the clocks are synchronised.

Point Two- The time a new unit stays awake after the last punch is by default two hours. At BSOC 06 and the Peter Palmer Relays 06 we ensured all controls were visited and woken up well within the first runner punching and would then stay awake through out the competition due to frequency of visits. This is relatively easy on a small and accessible area but perhaps less so in an area like that used for the British. Units can be programmed to lengthen the two hour period of 'wakefullness' if required.

Point Three- There are enough disadvantages when running first/early, without adding this.


Point Four- One second can be significant, M55L was won by a second but both competitors ran later on.

Point Five- The quiet or non existant beep is probably a minor fault on that particular control box. Harlequins have a couple that show this fault, but have decided not to incur the cost of return to Germany for repair, instead they are used where the beep is less significant to competitors - clear and check

[FatBoy]

For this year's Scottish 6 days we plan to determine the number of hours between planner/controller wake up and first starter arrival, and set the working time as appropriate so nobody is disadvantaged.

Personally this waking up problem has happened to me a few times and it is really annoying. You waste far more than the 1s per control as you first you punch at normal speed and don't get a beep, return punch again. Then you get used to it and approach for the slow punch and when you start getting quick ones again you go back to normal only to be caught out by the next one that's asleep... I think for smaller events it's something we'll have to live with for the simplicity of using the new type stations, but for large events it's something we should get right.

The spectator control caught me as well. On second punch I did hear a very faint beep (and saw the flash). Any JK/British using SI will drain the country of masterstations to use for the radio controls and download so I guess there wasn't much choice but to use it somewhere. Perhaps would've been better on the download table though.

[jonm]

Umm. Sorry to point this out but the Spectator Control was NOT a radio control.
All the radio controls were programmed in competition mode (so they did not go to sleep before or during the race) and were tested on the day to make sure they flashed and beeped.

[FatBoy]

Sorry my mistake.

[EddieH]

One of the units at the spectator control did NOT beep. I returned to it once, and finally used the other control. My splits show that I punched the units 6 seconds apart - quite a significant time loss, but I'm not complaining - it's just one of those things.
Maybe EMIT wouldn't do this!

[Rich R]

No the emit wouldn't register at all.

[Steve]

Maybe EMIT wouldn't do this!

No, emit wouldn't do it. You only run into trouble with emit when trying to speed punch, i.e. you wave your brick at the control and find you haven't got scrolling bars as you leave so have to go back. But this is competitor induced not system induced.

Uncertainty of punching success and subsequent re-punching can be very annoying, especially at that spectator control when your split from the previous one on top of the slag heap was under 10 seconds!

[ambler]

Stop moaning. Move on.