RouteGadget options plus Tinto Twin

[Paul Frost]

There is now a RouteGadget installation for the Tinto Twin.
http://www.tinto.routegadget.co.uk

You can plot your route choice and view the routes taken by others using an application written by Jarkko Ryyppö.

Following numerous requests from clubs wanting to use RouteGadget but unable to, due to hosting restrictions or lack of computing/web skills, I have a solution. I have set up a RouteGadget UK website. This has been a bit rushed in the desire to get something up & running for the Tinto Twin, so the exact details are still being formed.

Any club could have their own installation with a web address of:
http://www.yourclub.routegadget.co.uk
You would have access and permissions to upload the files required and to configure it for your club. In some cases I could do most of this for you.

One of the things still to be sorted is how to pay for all this!
There are costs involved, the hosting & bandwidth, & my time if I get involved with the uploading of events.
I am not looking to make this a commercial venture, but to offer a service that doesn't end up costing me money.
I am not sure if a fixed charge per year per club or a charge per event is the best solution.
How much are clubs prepared to pay for this service?

What do you think?

Contact me via the RouteGadget UK website if you would like to use RouteGadget for your club.

[mharky]

I think it's a brilliant idea

[sgb]

This sounds like the strange concept of people offering to work together in order to provide an improved outcome for all

If it gets around the problem of licences from the OS, then 'tis an absolutely brilliant idea.

[Nails]

to be honest the chance of OS finding an orienteering map online -then being bothered working out where it is -and then being bothered to work out who did the map -then being bothered to work out if their base data has been used -then being bothered to chase it up -then being bothered about being bothered is pretty slim. They have bigger fish to fry and big multimillion pound companies to chase around after. Just put up your map without a name and legend -and take it off after a couple of days if you're sweating.

[FatBoy]

I agree. Not necessarily inside the law but within the spirit - we're not putting O maps up so that people can download them and use them. Pretty well every orienteering map says something like "possession of the map doesn't imply right for access" - or put another way printing the map off the internet doesn't mean you can use it anyway. Also O maps put on the internet aren't of sufficient quality of image to be printed out and used.

[brooner]

to be honest the chance of OS finding an orienteering map online -then being bothered working out where it is -and then being bothered to work out who did the map -then being bothered to work out if their base data has been used -then being bothered to chase it up -then being bothered about being bothered is pretty slim. They have bigger fish to fry and big multimillion pound companies to chase around after. Just put up your map without a name and legend -and take it off after a couple of days if you're sweating.

i hope you use appropriately acquired base data for your maps

[xtophe]

On http://www.southdowns-orienteers.org.uk ... adget.html there is a box saying that all the maps are crown copyrighth ......
It would be interresting if Paul or some one from SO could explain how hard/expensive it was to get.

[Paul Frost]

I don't want there to be problems with this in the future, so I have emailed the OS for a definitive answer on the matter.

I understand that the problem is much smaller in Scotland, as most maps are based on a PG plot and not OS data. I know that all the EckO ones are PG based, but a lot of Southdowns ones us OS as the base.

[SYO Member]

If anything, the OS should pay us a fee to update their maps from our orienteering maps. The current 1:25,000 Explorer which includes SYO's Cawthorne Woods shows tracks and paths as they were nearly 60 years ago before much of the area was replanted. It also shows in Wombwell Wood an extensive quarry which over 30 years ago was filled in, replanted and is now almost mature woodland. I'm sure a similar thing applies in wooded areas across the country.

[Paul Frost]

I have now spoken to the OS about the licence issues.

If an OS map has been used as a base for the orienteering map there is a requirement to pay a licence fee to display it on a website.

It is called a PMCL (paper map copying licence), and costs £47.50 +vat per year. A separate licence is required for each website. So each club with its own RouteGadget installation would need one. The RouteGadget UK site would only need one licence to cover all maps displayed on it.

The OS issue a licence number that must be displayed on the page.

There is no licence required if the map is not based on a PG plot and not on an OS one.

So this will have an impact on the cost of providing the service.

[SeanC]

Hi Paul,

do you know if, once the club paid their money to OS, they would also be able to display maps outside of route gadget on their website (ie maps of permanent orienteering courses or for training purposes).

[Paul Frost]

The licence is to display maps on websites or print paper copies, not just in RouteGadget. The full terms can be found at the OS website.
There may be issues if you offer for download OS maps, but not to display them.

But don't forget, not all O maps are based on an OS map. PG plots are used much more now, all of EckO's maps are from PG plots. So you only need a licence to display OS based maps.

[ryeland of doom]

But don't forget, not all O maps are based on an OS map. PG plots are used much more now, all of EckO's maps are from PG plots. So you only need a licence to display OS based maps.

Another technique, to avoid the gouging gits,is to use out of copyright maps for a base.. 50 years old.

It really does make me angry that I cannot look at routes and maps of many British areas because of this censorship - for that is what it is.


When you think how little OS input is in our maps!

[Angry Haggis]

The NPE Maps are now out of copyright: See http://www.npemap.org.uk/ - might it be possible to base future maps on these, even if they are 1:63360?

Here's Leith Hill: http://www.npemap.org.uk/tiles/map.html#513,143,1
and Epping Forest: http://www.npemap.org.uk/tiles/map.html#542,198,1

Nothing for Scotland yet.

[ryeland of doom]

50year plus large scale maps can be useful - with lots of boundaries etc. such boundaries will probably still be there, even if only as earthbanks, but it is a framework.
The QO national event at Castle Neroche , Somerset a few years ago had a map based on these.

It appears that the OS demand multiple payments... You buy the base, pay a fee to print your map for the event, and now to realise the potential of reporting results completely. Worth cutting them out whenever possible.