Lakes Course lengths

[Freefall]

Look back at the earlier thread on coordination! I was Day 1 Controller and pleased to say there was very positive feedback (well done to Michael and Nettie) and the times looked about right.

Unfortunately I couldn't be in the Lakes yesterday but I have looked at the times compared to Day 1 (and the drop out rate) and will be interested to hear reactions!

[Gross]

M45 looks ok.... Dean. Walrus, Tullie, Petrie.....

[Suzy R Sopham]

M45 looks ok.... Dean. Walrus, Tullie, Petrie.....

I don't agree. Most of these people were about 20mins longer than their usual times. Surely in a multi-day event, the predicted winning times should allow a direct comparison to ensure fairness between the days.

If the people at the top of the class are 20mins longer, then people further down the class may take an extra hour or so!

I think the courses should have been about 1.5k shorter.

[Gross]

I don't think a 70 min winning time is excessive..... but I've no idea what the guidline said.... the winning times should be close to those.... punters at the bottom end???? Well if we plan courses for the likes of me then the winners will only be out for 5 minutes:)

[graeme]

Bit confused about your post - day 2 winning times seem to be in line with the guidelines yours were short. Andy Kelly told you that long before the event!

In my opinion, winning times aren't the most important thing: day 1 course had a nice mix of long and short legs, changes of direction, and mapreading-rather-than-compass. Looking at the retirement rate I'm happy with my policy decision not to go to areas whose name has been changed, and to have gone to day 1 not day 2.

Graeme

PS BOF guideline for M21L is winning time of 67 by a top international elite (if they were there). Others are scaled from there. There's a good case for multiday events to be shorter than the BOF guidelines (as we do the 6-day), but if that is the policy it should be made clear before you have to enter.

[Gross]

with my policy decision not to go to areas whose name has been changed,
Graeme

You'll not be going to any STAG events then

[Freefall]

When I say times were right I had in mind that for a multi day event they might err on the faster-than- recommended for a Badge event.

I think the important thing was the quality and enjoyment factor and the end result that virtually everyone felt compelled and interested enough to complete their courses.

[johnloguk]

I think Graeme is spot on about winning times not being the most important thing. I've run too many courses where the winning times were probably just right by guidelines, but the course had to visit crap areas or have pointless dead legs to make the distance right. If courses, and therefore winning times, are slightly too long/short it is less important than a good experience for the punters.

[graeme]

When I say times were right I had in mind that for a multi day event they might err ...

[Gross]

Advertised winning times published in advance should be accurate.... but that doesn't mean they should be made out of thin air resulting in the planner making a crap course to get the result. If the planner / controller are any good at all then the published winning time should reflect what a good course can be completed in on that area... no sense in saying a 90 min winning time on an area like Hyde Park......

[johnloguk]

Totally agree Gross

[Freefall]

I am assuming some of you actually ran yesterday (I know Graemem declined). What was it like and why the high drop out rate? Was it not fun?

[Gross]

Just looked at the W21L results from yesterday & they do seem a bit long at 82 mins.... but it was a junior that won & I guess a good elite would be down to 75 mins which is ok ish.

[Suzy R Sopham]

What was it like and why the high drop out rate? Was it not fun?

In answer to the above:-

1. The felled areas were reminiscent of post-apocalyptic landscapes, as per Terminator movies.

2. Some of the marked marshes were not marked as uncrossable, however I was waist-deep(i.e. >1m) in water and had to swim out!

3. There was a 4m high, and 20m long crag missed off the map!

4. I lost the will to live when, at the drink stop, I realised I had been out for an hour, but not even half way round the course.

5. Lots of controls were very hidden; so much so that on two occasions I was standing at the feature and still could not find the marker!

I did enjoy Day-1, but Day-2 was not one of my favourite orienteering days!

[Freefall]

Probably would have been tough using crutches then!