Secondary School Teachers- how do you get to them.

[HOCOLITE]

We are holding a Schools O competition tomorrow. We've got 140 competitors 114 from primary the rest secondary. Schools have been emailed in some cases targetted to last known contact, in one case I've even had a phone call. We know there are kids in the schools that do O and want to take part, but without an interested teacher in O to co-ord the entry its sooooooo hard. Basically those who have entered have done so as a parent has taken on the entry, or a senior pupil bullied them. How do you get the right contact? I've emailed a sports ???PGM, who covers a secondary and several of the primaries that enter and told him about the kids at the primaries who will be moving to his school, I've told him their are kids in his school who do O and want to take part. Not even an acknowledgment. Am I banging my head against a brickwall, no sorry I am banging my head against a brickwall. I don't have the time to visit or phone these individuals and anyway getting past the reception is impossible even if you know who you want to speak to. Do the RDO's have the same problem. The education authorities don't repond either. Now if I send a press release to the local papers and radio station they all come up trumps!

Is it a wonder that in the forums re increased membership people say don't bother with schools and concentrate on families?

[guest]

All teachers have a heavy and ever-increasing workload plus the threat of being sued. I am not surprised so few teachers are interested as many are already involved in traditional school sports and also need a work/life balance.
Successful school teams are often run by teachers who may not have as many family commitments eg Ulverston and, in the past, Anfield or by interested parents eg Wirral Grammar.
Another reason some teachers may not want to get involved is the fact they are seen as a 'dumping ground' or free child-care, especially at junior level.
Also, it's not just a case of training the children, it's the copious amounts of paperwork involved and collection of money(which teachers are not supposed to do - 24 tasks legislation) which may put some teachers off.
This may appear negative but when you work in Education you can see many reasons why teachers don't wish to participate.
I don't know what the answer is but perhaps we shouldn't worry about declining junior numbers, Palmer, Kitchen and Lightfoot are doing their bit to boost numbers

[Crispy]

Palmer, Kitchen and Lightfoot are doing their bit to boost numbers

....as is GG, in primary schools both in Kenilworth and Coventry and via the Droobers Junior Squad.

Chris

[Gross]

Palmer, Kitchen and Lightfoot are doing their bit to boost numbers

....as is GG, in primary schools both in Kenilworth and Coventry and via the Droobers Junior Squad.

Chris

Well I hope GG not doing his bit in the same way as the aforementioed trio otherwise it'll not be the teachers being worried about being sued:)

[HOCOLITE]

Crispy I think Palmer etc are boosting them the same way E;lkington/Ross did Re GG and his work, great but if the secondary's won't take it on your time is wasted in most cases.

Never mind doing the O it's the lack of response or in the one case follow up. The kids thought they'd been entered and were raring to go... One brief telecon but no email of entries no response to my guess at who entries were no idea if kids will get details......

[Stodgetta]

GG, what are you doing in those Warwickshire schools

I hope you're not boosting junior numbers in the same way as Palmer, Kitchen & Lightfoot

[RJ]

Yes HOCOLITE it is a tough call. A lot of the work with schools has to be done on their terms, rather than aiming at families, which can be done on the club's terms.

That said.... we have been running a series of events in Spring/Summer for five years now... using the larger secondary school grounds. All primaries are invited to these. Over the years this has built up to about 250 per event from about twenty+ primaries. Word gets around....

We set up a second series for secondary schools this year. We are getting 110 from 8 schools. We are using small local areas, such as parkland. Again, it has been a slow progress... built up over five years.

Now, at last, we have a slow trickle of juniors into the club. It is long term.... but everyone within the sports education sector has at last some respect for orienteering and there are a couple of thousand kids who have done proper 'O'. Maybe they will have a go as adults..... All we can do is wait!

[SeanC]

I'll ask my wife (non-orienteering, experienced PE teacher in inner city comp) for her opinions this weekend and post something up if I think it's useful.

A few things that I can say now:

- guest is right, teachers are a very overworked bunch and very hard to get hold of. They usually dont have an office or even their own computer. THey might have an email address but will often not use email as communication is still very much verbal. If they have an office phone they are unlikely to be sitting by it as they will be teaching. A letter might be the best approach but it is likely to be lost in the mountain of paperwork or put to the bottom of an endless to do list.

- You're more likely to get a response at certain times of the year. Try the start of a term, or in the summer term after exams. This time of year is about the worst.

- The secondary schools that have selected the "adventerous activities" option in their PE curriculum are much more likely to be interested in orienteering than those who haven't.

RJ is right. Teachers are much more likely to take the kids orienteering if it's in the school grounds. This means it can be done in a single lesson, without organising a bus, lesson cover, letters to parents (who often dont reply) etc. Then there is the problem of getting the legal staff/student ratio and the worry that the kids might get lost (accidently or otherwise), walk into a main road or bump into some undesirable strangers. The next best option from the teachers viewpoint is going to a nearby school where staff/student ratios will be less of a problem and they will be enclosed by a lovely big fence.

[Gross]

and that's adventurous?????

[Mrs H.]

All this just underlines my suspicions that schools development work is basically a waste of time

RJ says a series of events run over 5 years is producing a "slow trickle" of juniors into clubs. The same amount of effort directed straight at interested families would have produced a flood. I have now recruited 74 people in six months with one series of such events.

RJ you say we have to double numbers to keep the sport alive - I've more than tripled it here in 6 months - how long will your "slow trickle" take?

[richardm]

well the work of linda thornton and mike hardy (CLOK) is a good example of when recruiting through schools can work. for example, the clok juniors squad was much bigger than normal at the yvette baker final, (i cant remember exact facts and numbers), because of the amount of people who were recruited through school. there are a lot of people whose families do not do o, (including myself) and would not have the chance if it wasnt for recruiting in schools.
if a slow trickle of new members come from school recruiting, that might only be a few people joining now, but if they enjoy it and stay with it, in the future that can be a few families rather than individual people. i dont see how this can be describes as "a waste of time"
as for getting through to teachers, i'm probably not the right person to ask. all i can really suggest is trying to get children in the schools to ask/suggest going orienteering to the teachers

[guest]

I wonder how many people who post during 'normal' working hours are teachers?

[RJ]

All this just underlines my suspicions that schools development work is basically a waste of time

RJ says a series of events run over 5 years is producing a "slow trickle" of juniors into clubs. The same amount of effort directed straight at interested families would have produced a flood. I have now recruited 74 people in six months with one series of such events.

Mrs H... your quite ungracious remarks first.... those of us involved in the schools work are all adults and are well aware of what we are doing! We are happy with the progress and the response. We are quite happy to continue... we feel it is well worth while.

Mrs H... your obvious scepticism! Most of the work has been with Year 5s and 6s. Really too young at that stage. Now that they are at secondary schools in quantity, and that we have started our secondary league, we have quite a sizable target audience. So... part of the next strategy is to forge the club/school link with low key events etc.

And then using the SELOC model we will be targetting this particular group along with their parents and inviting them to low key events. 11-15 year olds have more chance of influencing their parents, and of finding mates for lift sharing etc. We'll see!!

We also have a county organisation, Cumbria Schools OA that picks up the better pupils, invites them along to training opportunities, and involves them in inter-county matches. They also run county championships.

The schools work is also working strongly in Carlisle (BorderLiners) and South Lakes (Lakeland OC). The better kids are selected for the Cumbria Youth Games, held annually.

[[my username]]

there are a lot of people whose families do not do o, (including myself) and would not have the chance if it wasnt for recruiting in schools.

agreed, CLOK has recently attracted quite a few young people to O through a regular schools league in local parks, and this has in turn attracted families. Young people often seem enthusiastic and love orienteering, but the problem is always making sure the kids know that they can orienteer at club/regional etc level aswell as with school and enticing them out at weekends without relying on the school group taking them there. Park events hardly scratch the surface, but how many of the children know that? I think the key is advertising club or regional junior squad training days at schools events.

as for teacheres being reluctant to put the effort in, the only way is to have volunteering local orienteers putting in all the effort for them. sad, but true...

[Mrs H.]

RJ - well as long as you're happy with the return on your investment that's fine - I guess you'll stop scolding the rest of us for not pulling our weight on recruitment now then.

As for being ungracious - I see no reason to mince my words on the matter. MADO produced a BSOC silver medal winning team - the PE teacher at that same school can't organise a group of kids to go 10 minutes down the road for the county champs. Schools work per se is not producing main stream orienteers in anywhere near the quantity to justfy the effort (in my humble opinion) It just depends what you want to do - develop the sport or perform some kind of social service.