Fixture congestion and budgetting for events

[tokoloshe]

This coming weekend must be great for competitors with 14 events to chose from. What does it do for event organisers who might reasonably expect, 12 months ago, for an average entry to their event and set the entry fee accordingly.

As an example - Chasers would normally get to a Regional Event on the Chase at least 900 entrants, possibly more. Pre entries are 310. Car parking has been negotiated at a minimum rate, toilets booked etc etc. The event will almost certainly run at a loss.

I thought the BOF fixtures system was intended to avoid such monumental bunching in the calendar, even for what is one of the best times for orienteering with little undergrowth. Could we have a better system?

[Dave]

It does seem a bit crazy, but you can't really tell a club they're not allowed to put on an event could you?

[MarkC]

I thought the BOF fixtures system was intended to avoid such monumental bunching in the calendar, even for what is one of the best times for orienteering with little undergrowth. Could we have a better system?

I'd rather see it as a positive that there are so many events to choose from, as it means that most of the population is within an hour or two of an event; when you had 900 entrants, how far away were people coming from?

I think the current system aims to avoid concurrent Regional events in adjoining regions, the only exception to this at the weekend being the events at Sandringham and Chichester, which aren't exactly adjacent. Events below this level are largely managed internally within regions, and I can't see a real problem with having a District event every week within each region if the clubs want to put on that many events (as long as clashes near a common regional boundary are avoided).

A good point has been made already in this forum, which is that the difference between District and Regional events is closing, making a nearby District event with pre-marked up-to-date maps and e-punching a more attractive proposition than an old-style Colour Coded event using master maps and a five year old map with loads of corrections.

What are the main differences that remain?

• age class courses - may be positive or negative, depending on how many rivals you have;
• ranking points - positive if you care about the ranking list;
• having to enter in advance - neutral if your life is organised, negative if not;
• higher entry fees - negative all round.

Is there anything special about Regional events any more?

[HOCOLITE]

The Chase isn't that special and particularly when there are a number of District events there throughout the year. Numbers have possibly been higher than most due to a fairly central position, but the entry fee is 0.50p higher per person than any other regional event I've entered this year and there is a £1.00 car parking charge as well, so that's good bye to a £10.00, thus it's beginning to make the British more reasonable. In the retail market competition sets the level and the overpriced item has to have that extra something to make it attractive.

[RJ]

Let us not write off the Regional event. I think the current demise of its stature is mainly due to the drop in numbers participating in the sport. People are competing at District level and then, when they (the competent orienteers) want real competition they go to the nationals.

If we concentrate on building our participation numbers.... increasing them by 100%.... and using the District event for this development we will eventually have a sport back to its previous size. Then participants will look for competition in age class groupings and the Regional event will see an increase in numbers.

The Regional event is a necessary step in the 'orienteer's' development. It will all come good... in time.... just hold our nerve... and work on those building blocks at the base of the pyramid.

[Stodgetta]

I think part of Chasers problem this weekend is other local events, and I agree with Mark C when he says there's not a huge difference between regional & district events (in terms of the actual differences to the competitor the only difference between a Chasers district event and regional event are a bagged map, a pre-allocated start time if you are organised enough to pre-enter, and an extra £4 entry fee - yes, Hocolite, it is expensive, but do you know how much it costs us to get access to the Conservation Area?), but I think fixtures congestion is an issue this weekend, but also with big events jam-packed in over a short period of time.

I guess if we had known when the event was registered that it was going to be BUSA this weekend, that last weekend there was a FCC weekend in South Wales, that next weekend there will be a UK Cup/FCC weekend in the Lakes and that in fairly quick succession after there will be BOC, CSC and JK on successive weekends we may not have decided to have our event on Sunday! No-one is to blame for it, it's just the way things have panned out I also recognise that for the elites it is ideal to have all the important events over a short season.

If I wasn't a Chaser and was planning on going to all these events, I might fancy a quiet weekend at home while I can!

Hopefully we will have lots of local beginner orienteers entering the colour coded courses on the day to give us a moral boost!

BTW, we are still accepting entries (PM me or Stodge - our entries man has gone to Spain to escape ), and there will be EOD depending on map numbers!!!

[Mrs H.]

you're right about the timing Stodgetta - we are chock a block. Another thing which may have affected entries is the timing of the initial closing date - which caught me out as it was over half term when we were ski-ing. I was very surprised to come back and find we'd missed it - somehow the whole event had passed me by - and i did think to myself that a day off would be good (We have MADO on saturday)

Since the post on nopesport i have taken a late entry for myself and little Miss H. and I may well contact you re Neville if he can decide whether he's doing the Ten Tors training or not.

[Marco Polo]

This coming weekend must be great for competitors with 14 events to chose from. What does it do for event organisers who might reasonably expect, 12 months ago, for an average entry to their event and set the entry fee accordingly.

Looks like 12 events now according to the BOF web site , so maybe some more late entries?

[Stodgetta]

We hear that the DVO districe event is cancelled for Sunday, and last weekend there were notices up saying the SWOC district event was cancelled, too.

Entries still available...

[HOCOLITE]

We ploghed through the snow this morning and went to the green green grass of Cannock. Sorry brown brown bracken. Quite enjoyed it although the courses seemed to be much less challenging than JK, I think the OOB area led to a lot of dead running for some but it meant a different approach to the Chase. Must say the temptation to stay and play in the snow was great after last weekend. However the Malverns looked like the Alps tonight couldn't even see them this morning.

[Mrs H.]

Tell me about it - couldn't even get down the road......

[HOCOLITE]

We were OK going down but we wouldn't have got back up. We were one of the first on the road too, which helped. A good job it didn't come a day earlier wasn't it Mrs H. When do you think the Loo people will pick up the loos? I was initially worried they might have blown over again, but I hadn't anticipated quite so much snow.

[stodge]

Still no snow on the chase ..............

Just spoke to Fatboy - 9 hours to get home after MTBO canceled .... ouch

Thanks to all of you who battled to get to the event, we had about 60 dns' out of 490 entries so not too bad given the weather. I think the download tent has had its final outing though. at about 2.30 the wind really got up and more or less blew it flat a couple of times

[John Morris]

RJ wrote (way back at the top of this thread):-

"Let us not write off the Regional event. I think the current demise of its stature is mainly due to the drop in numbers participating in the sport. People are competing at District level and then, when they (the competent orienteers) want real competition they go to the nationals.

"If we concentrate on building our participation numbers.... increasing them by 100%.... and using the District event for this development we will eventually have a sport back to its previous size. Then participants will look for competition in age class groupings and the Regional event will see an increase in numbers."


I'm not sure that this is what we're seeing in the South East.

My impression, and it is only an impression, is that with the increase in presentation quality of colour-coded events (both C4 District and C5 Local), with preprinted maps, electronic punching, instant results and all, they are becoming relatively more popular than age-class events, not least because free-and-easy, EOD, turn up and run, choose your own level, events suit the leisure-starved present-day orienteer rather better than the more regimented age-class alternative.

Nor am I convinced that there is a natural progression from having fun to elite endeavour. And if there is, the renaming of "Badge" events as "Regional" events has obscured an important distinction, one that previously justified the extra complications of the pre-booked, precision start, symbolic description, age-class event. (IMHO... )

What do others see?

And does it tally with BOF's event attendance statistics?

And what are the implications for Levy tariffs?

[tim sleepless]

It seems to me that the ratio of regional to District events has shifted also. Are there relatively more regionals than there used to be? If so, this does have implications for bringing new people into the sport who would ideally do a quite a few colour codeds before progressing on. Add to that the fact that we now have "S" rather than "B" courses mean that adult newcomers have to make quite a jump as they look to progress beyond starter courses.