British sprint middle info

[EddieH]

Am i missing something? British sprints final details give course numbers and lengths but do not say which classes do which courses.

British middle final details don't even tell me where the event is - I guess there are further updates to come on this but they must know where the event is at this stage.

[MIE]

You need to do a bit of mental gymnastics:

The Classes/Courses combinations are listed in the "Entries" tab
(M60 is on course(s) 3)

Then switch to the Final details tab and you will see 3-1,3-2,and 3-3
for the Heats and A3, B3 and C3 for the finals -- simples

I am assuming that the heat we are running in is secret until the start line.

[Marco Polo]

British middle final details don't even tell me where the event is - I guess there are further updates to come on this but they must know where the event is at this stage.

It's Brereton Spurs- first mention on page 4 of the details, but to be fair road directions to assembly are before that.

There's also a routegadget link (CSC qualifier 2012) to the last use of the area.

[graeme]

British sprints final details give course numbers and lengths but do not say which classes do which courses.

They kept it secret last year too. I don't know if its in the rules, but the rules do say best-off-last for spectator interest. I find it hard to be interested in a race if I don't know who is racing who...

[Homer]

I am assuming that the heat we are running in is secret until the start line.

I agree that it should be, but...
the Final Details say 'make sure you allow plenty of time to be at the start in good time and that you know your heat number (e.g. 2.1)'
Not sure how you're supposed to know your heat number when they haven't been published.

Whilst I'm on, shouldn't the British Champs start list be seeded? If so, how come Quentin Harding and Martin Bagness are starting 1 minute apart (Middle Champs)?

[graeme]

how come Quentin Harding and Martin Bagness are starting 1 minute apart (Middle Champs)?

Same reason Daniel Hubmann and Thierry Gueorgiou started 90sec apart at WOC. Except M50s are 50% slower.

[Homer]

Same reason Daniel Hubmann and Thierry Gueorgiou started 90sec apart at WOC. Except M50s are 50% slower.

And who thinks that's a good idea? Apart from maybe TV companies.

From the Rules (Appendix A; Event systems):

3. Seeding
3.1 General principles
3.1.1 The principles described below apply to the following level A competitions:
 British Long distance Championships
 British Middle distance Championships
 British Sprint Championships
 JK Sprint Championships
 JK Individual Championships
 Area Championships
3.1.2 The purpose of seeding is to ensure as fair a competition as possible for the better competitors in a class. This is achieved by preventing good competitors on the same course from starting too close together. Note that these competitors may be in different classes when more than one class uses the same course.
3.1.3 Minimum separation times between seeded runners must be applied as follows:
 Sprint: 1 minute
 Middle Distance: 2 minutes
 Long Distance: 4 minutes

[Spookster]

Whilst I'm on, shouldn't the British Champs start list be seeded? If so, how come Quentin Harding and Martin Bagness are starting 1 minute apart (Middle Champs)?

Evidently Bilbo isn't seeded. But since he's only ranked 3651st, why would he be? Is he good?!

Level A organisers ought to use sources other than just the ranking list to identify seeds. It looks like unfortunately this hasn't happened here.

[NeilC]

I am assuming that the heat we are running in is secret until the start line.

They managed that at Nottingham but in recent years they have either been published in advance (eg Brighton) or revealed at call up where you are sorted into start lanes and thus can identify the runners immediately ahead and behind you (eg York / Loughborough).

Re seeding I guess Bilbo doesn't have enough ranking events to warrant a seeded start time. Someone like Dave Peel used to spot some of these anomalies but you can't expect an organiser to know the top runners in all the classes.

[Spookster]

I am assuming that the heat we are running in is secret until the start line.

Perhaps, but from the Final Details, CDs are provided at -4, so that suggests we'll find out somewhat before the start line.

[graeme]

And who thinks that's a good idea?

Oh, me, definitely. Totally signed up to the whole WOC ideal, me. Totally. Yup. signed on the dotted line and all that.

Actually, the BOF rules say ...
"27.1 The competition Rules give details of when and if seeding and selection are required"

and the Middle rules don't mention seeding, so appendix A which you quote doesn't apply.

Appendix A does specifically mention seeding for elites at the Middle Champs, the principle of which is that the best runners should start as close together as possible. Maybe the organisers decided to adopt that principle?

[graeme]

Level A organisers ought to use sources other than just the ranking list to identify seeds.

Or even use the ranking list sensibly. bilbo's average score is the 2nd best among M50s ...

Someone like Dave Peel used to spot some of these anomalies ...

they didn't ask me this time, but I'll take that as a compliment

[Homer]

I wouldn't have thought Bilbo would be too hard to spot by whoever was doing the start list. Surely a job for someone who has been around a bit and would remember his WOC silver medal. Then the Controller should be casting his eye over it for any obvious omissions.
Anyway there's still time to correct the oversight. ..

[graeme]

Well, you might have thought the Italian WOC team would have remembered Miranova's silver in EOC and put her in the seeded block. You might have thought the EOC would have noticed Signe Soes winning the qualifier the day before and put her in the seeded block.

And who thinks that's a good idea? Apart from maybe TV companies.

I don't imagine anyone thought the TV and internet coverage from after the winner had finished was a good idea...

...and yes, I did ask the relevant BOF committee to use a ranking list by average score, but I was assured that would give unreliable results .
but I'm not convinced that having had good teammates in a race 20 years ago should get you seeded.

[Scott]

Perhaps, but from the Final Details, CDs are provided at -4, so that suggests we'll find out somewhat before the start line.

Perhaps there will be a funky curtain thing like the one we had at Chorley.

It would be nice to know in advance how many from each sprint heat in each class will go into each final, especially given that the rules leave the B/C final diving line entirely at the whim of the organiser.