Crossing Points... AGAIN!

[229]

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[seabird]

I almost despair on this one.

At the event I plannned last week we informed runners in written leaflets, handed out as they arrived, that there were fences that they were not allowed to cross; that were shown on the map with the Purple (25% cyan 100% magenta for the colour blind) underprint linear OOB symbol.

The maps in the start lane prominently and boldly announced this also.

The competitor maps clearly showed the purple underprint.

And yet inevitably I still came across competitors about to cross the fence until I directed them to a crossing point, and Routegadget suggests others did the same.

When will competitors realise that we will loswe access to areas if they do not comply with these restrictions.

I come back to feeling we need to put controls on all crossing points. The only problem being that some areas have too many for this to be viable.

[229]

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[AndyC]

Roving Marshalls with cameras (plus wearing numbers)?
Snipers strategically placed (with paintball guns if you're worried about bloodshed)?
Compulsory GPS?
Electrified fences?

The real question is are people cheating deliberately (in which case DQ and ban for repeat offenders) or because the information isn't clear?
I've reflected on the Northern Champs and I think the way of doing it there was to ban crossing all fences and walls except at crossing points unless in specified areas perhaps highlighted by something like yellow stripes ( I don't think that overlay is used is it?) rather than try to specify which fences couldn't be crossed.

[King Penguin]

yellow stripes could be interpreted on the run as a narrow strip of (rough) open along either side of the fence / wall ?

[AndyC]

I was actually thinking of overlaying a whole area with yellow stripes (At Ray Demesne the whole of a block of wood NOT including the surrounding fence) rather than using it as a "permitted fence" symbol

[andypat]

I almost despair on this one.

At the event I plannned last week we informed runners in written leaflets, handed out as they arrived, that there were fences that they were not allowed to cross; that were shown on the map with the Purple (25% cyan 100% magenta for the colour blind) underprint linear OOB symbol.

The maps in the start lane prominently and boldly announced this also.

The competitor maps clearly showed the purple underprint.

And yet inevitably I still came across competitors about to cross the fence until I directed them to a crossing point, and Routegadget suggests others did the same.

When will competitors realise that we will loswe access to areas if they do not comply with these restrictions.

I come back to feeling we need to put controls on all crossing points. The only problem being that some areas have too many for this to be viable.

When planning did you take account of this issue when planning the legs either side of the crossing points? The last time I planned on that sort of area, I tried to make sure that the crossing point was more or less on the way and that either the control before or after was close enought to it to negate any possible advantage by not using it. Bit of a compromise, but sensible I feel if future access is at stake and also to be fair to those of us who do not like to cheat, and probalby a better option than a control at the crossing point. I have seen other planners do this too.

[pigweed]

Planners and organisers have a responsibility to make uncrossible fences obvious to the competitor on the map using the appropriete markings.

I will admit to crossing a fence I shouldn't have once because the colouring and detail of the map for the overprinting wasn't clear enough and I only spotted this after I'd finished. The colour of the overprinting of the map in that area wasn't purple enough in my opinion, and being almost orangy red didn't stand out enough against the rough open. Only the fence was marked, i.e. there wasn't an OOB area the other side of the fence.
Had I have noticed it on the course I would have avoided it.

Just something to bear in mind before complaining about competitors doing naughty things.

[Wayward-O]

Would ensuring that the mandatory crossing point symbol 13.3 is used in the control descriptions help? At the Northern Champs, none were included.

Also, would it be feasible to include a control box at each crossing point, but not include them specifically on the courses (i.e not constraining the design of the courses, route choice, etc.). Then, on the map and all other literature, etc., include the instruction that all control boxes at crossing points used must be punched?

[AndyC]

I'll point out that at the Northern Champs on some routes there was the option to use a crossing point or to avoid crossing the fence altogether depending on route choice -putting a mandatory crossing into the control description isn't appropriate then. There is an example in the "Not Grim up North Thread"

[seabird]

[
When planning did you take account of this issue when planning the legs either side of the crossing points? The last time I planned on that sort of area, I tried to make sure that the crossing point was more or less on the way and that either the control before or after was close enought to it to negate any possible advantage by not using it.

Yes

[EddieH]

"either the control before or after was close enought to it "

But beware of trivialising the navigation. I have run at events where there have been long moorland legs ending in controls just past a crossing point. Rather loses the point of the sport

[andypat]

As I said - its a compromise and depends on the situation. But if you plan a huge dogleg with a mandatory crossing point at the apex, you are probably inviting trouble. Just being pragmatic rather than idealistic!

[229]

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[EddieH]

I have just got around to reading the details and I can see no doubt or ambiguity whatsoever.

My reading is that there are several fences that may not be very easy for some to cross and that they have numerous crossing points which we are recommended to use.

There are also fences correctly marked with purple which MUST NOT be crossed other than at crossing points.

It seems simple and correct to me (unless of course I have skim read it too quickly).