Online Entry - on the day payment

[alanbrett]

Has any club tried out an online registration system but without online payment. Entry fees to be paid before starting, checked off a printout of the online registration.

I know Ajax in Ireland used a similar system for a recent event.

Benefits as I see it:
- No charges from payment systems.
- Less work on the day entering data from entry forms - data can be imported directly into OE / Autodownload - event can therefore be run with fewer volunteers. Also competitors don't have to fill out entry forms in the cold.
- Gives organisers some advance ideas on numbers for map printing.
- Email address for each competitor means we can email them when results are available.

Any views?

[awk]

We haven't tried it, but the one event which jumps to mind that uses one every year is the Venice street race. As a competitor, it seems to work brilliantly.

[Clive Coles]

Rather like the idea ~ simplifies registration and gives the organiser a better idea of likely numbers.

The current system of collecting money up front doesn't always overcome the number of likely competitors problem. You almost need to double the number of pre-entries to get a realistic figure as so many folk enter on the day.

I also hate the practice of surcharging a further £2 for entry on the day. You enter an event in good faith, but even if you get taken ill and withdraw before the closing date you still forfeit all your entry fee.

This happened to me last month ~ £10 down the drain. Makes you think twice about pre-registering at many more events.

But, with the suggestion being made, more people will be inclined to sign up in advance. Surely a better solution.

[NFKleanne]

I went to an event where I registered by putting my SI Card in the system (like download), then said which course I was going to do! Then paid my money to a second person. It was much better as the kids did the same and I had no forms to fill in.

[IanD]

if you get taken ill and withdraw before the closing date you still forfeit all your entry fee.

That was the choice of the event concerned. It would have been perfectly possible to refund either your entire entry fee, or most of it with a reduction for administration costs.

If you were to publicise the identity of the club involved, I speculate that they would find the proportion pre-entering their future events would drop dramatically.

[andypat]

Are you sure?
I've preentered many events and had to drop out for the first time at the British Champs this year due to a bereavement. It wouldnt have occurredf to me to ask for my money back. If I enter early to save money I'd assume thats the risk I take. Same as with Travellodge etc. Is that not generally the case?

[Clive Coles]

Thank's Ian

I guessed it would be down to the club concerned as Fabian would not necessarily know if there should be an administrative fee deduction. All I received from Fabian was the message

This is an automated email to confirm the following amendments to your entry:

Changes to Start Number 64 (Clive Coles)
Cancelled status from "False" to "True"

If the above changes were not expected, or appear incorrect, then please Reply All to this email.

Fabian4 Online Entry

Nice to know I am now "true" ~ computer gobbledgook.

Sadly I think a number of clubs did follow the BOF suggestion that the old District events that were league events should have been upgraded to Regional status for 2010. Although not a requirement under the rules many opted for pre-entries recognising they could charge an extra £2 for entry on the day. A nice way of increasing the event margins.

Let's hope we get more Level C events in 2011. Level B status events need to be justified by the quality of the organisation, the technical options offered by the terrain and the competition.

Folk will not travel if they are short changed.

Fair point Andypat ~ I think this is the only time I have had to pull out of a pre-entry event. And I too would not dream of going cap in hand to the club concerned to ask for a refund. But we have to be careful as we move forward that perceptions do not become reality.

[soc123]

Not quite online entry, but for a daytime street event we did in August (for the first time) we asked competitors to reserve a map for the event by email to the enquiries@our O club email address.
That worked well in getting information of how many maps we needed to get printed.
By collecting the numbers also made our printing methodology decision. We reckoned that any figure over 50 we would get the map printed by the printers we use, less than 50 we would print them in house.
We allowed for a few turning up on the day unannounced, and everyone paid on the day.
We only had one no show on the event, and that was due to injury during the week of the event, and we got an email apologising!

[NeilC]

Some views from the SE

The Kent Night Cup asks for participants to e-mail in advance - mainly for map number reasons.

My own club enters BOF members through reading data from their SI card / BOF database and the bespoke software even suggests an appropriate course (based on past history). Other clubs still manually enter all competitors from paper forms.

In my experience a club will refund an entry fee (or most of it) if you have a good reason and ask them nicely.

[EddieH]

I have to put in a good word for this year's British Champs.I really cocked up and entered my partner. Later I booked a train for just me She decided not to go,and only very late did I realise I'd entered her. I told BOC what had happened, but never expected for a minute to recieve a 100% refund, particularly as I only told them in the week before the event

[goran77]

At OOCup.com we have always used online entries. Payment in advance was always optional.

However, this is 5 days competition with over 1000 competitors. I can't imagine having people coming to competition area and registering on the day when event starts. There is enough work with all the other stuff. Also, we would have to print too many additional maps for each class or there could be a shortage of maps and people would not be able to register for the course/class they like. Handling start list would be a nightmare.

So, generally the only acceptable way for us it to close the (online) entries at some date. After that date correct number of maps is being printed, and people can only register into OPEN classes.

If your entry day is close to competition day, then you get pretty accurate number of competitors that will attend your competition (if you allow entries on the competition day at all). For smaller competition this could be like 3 days before competition starts. For us I think something like 2 weeks is manageable.

Anyway, if you decide to try online entries with no payment in advance for your competition, I can suggest you to use OrienteeringOnline entries system
http://www.orienteeringonline.net

It's free and feature rich.

[EddieH]

More directly on topis, I think there are only 3 motivating factors to pre-entry.

1 because it is cheaper (if it is)

2 so that you can be given a guaranteed start slot, thus not having to wait in a queue for a start time.

3 just to be nice to the organisers.

A large number of orienteers are fair weather participants. They are unlikely to pre-enter for any of the above reasons. I fail to see why it is unreasonable that they should pay a bit extra as they are incurring the club in expense of catering for their potential arrival. They save money overall because they don't pay for a lot of events that they don't attend.

I once controlled a BASOC event on a superb area on a damp discouraging day. The club had printed maps to cover a likely turn-out but ended up making a substantial loss. A peripheral club like BASOC, who have phenomonal restrictions on when they are able to put on events due to capercaille in the spring/ summer, and weather in the winter, can ill afford such losses. Pre-entry at a lower rate than on the day seems entirely reasonable and sensible to me.

We have tried pre-entry with no eod surcharge, and the more conventional pre-entry and frankly the former option benefitted us not a bit as relatively few did, and we were still left with no idea of the entry numbers.

[sketchweppers]

I went to an event where I registered by putting my SI Card in the system (like download), then said which course I was going to do! Then paid my money to a second person. It was much better as the kids did the same and I had no forms to fill in.

We did this at at LOG event and at a LEI event back in 2008, and thought it a great idea. However at subsequent LEI and LOG events it doesn't seem to have happened. Any one got any ideas why?

I thought this was a good system, so can we bring it back.

On the subject of forms - it is better when they are handed out to drivers as they enter the car park, together with details of course lengths etc. At least then we can fill them in the dry and warm of the car.

[Spookster]

I thought this was a good system, so can we bring it back.

That method of entry-on-the-day works well when most or all of your entrants are BOF members and have their own e-card registered on the BOF database (and you have obtained a recent version of that database). However, when you have an event that attracts a lot of newcomers or non-BOF members, then you also need to operate a paper form based entry system. Rather than run two ways of entering the event in parallel, some organisers may decide that it's actually easier just to have all EODs complete a form. The workload for the computing team is very similar, because for the BOF members with registered e-cards you still only have to type in the e-card number, and as long as forms are handed out to arriving cars, it's not a big deal for everyone to fill one in.

[Ernie_Wise]

I went to an event where I registered by putting my SI Card in the system (like download), then said which course I was going to do! Then paid my money to a second person. It was much better as the kids did the same and I had no forms to fill in.

This is standard practice at Southdowns events.