Collusion with the Elite

[EddieH]

There has been a lot of fuss lately about the elite colluding in the forest and there seems no doubt that running a race alone is a big disadvantage at this level.
So why at O-Ringen for a long World Cup race do they set off runners at 2 minute intervals in pairs to run the first few km knowing they have the same controls

It seems utterly daft to me.

[Kitch]

I have it on good authority that there is a proposal to be put to the IOF competitions group for WOC 2010 (Norway - they like these ideas in Norway) for a team stage race, in which a group of runners from each nation will compete across 7 consecutive daily stages throughout WOC week.
Each team will have a nominal leader, with 4 team mates whose job it will be to ensure thier leader gains the best result over the week, though team members may go for individual stage victories in sprint or long stages according to their strengths.
All races will be mass start and collaboration / team tactics will be the order of the day, with subbordinate team members perhaps trying to lead out rival team leaders and take them the wrong way, or force an error through oxygen debt, or simply wear them out with constant attacks.
national teams in WOC wil be expanded to 12 members to cater for this discipline
pretty exciting stuff if they can get the trac trac on track.

[EddieH]

This is so weird it sounds like a wind-up

[andy]

This is so weird it sounds like a wind-up

looks like someone has been watching too much of Le Tour too (edit, someone being either Kitch or whoever proposed it)

Sounds like a really fun concept but is it something that's going to get into orienteering? Doesn't sound like it.

[Snail]

Kitch wrote:

"with subbordinate team members perhaps trying to lead out rival team leaders and take them the wrong way"

Or a more interesting alternative:
"with subbordinate team members perhaps trying to take out rival team leaders and lead them the wrong way"

[Gnitworp]

Never thought orienteering could be a contact sport. Would it be League or Union rules for tackles?

[Adventure Racer]

If that really is serious, then surely the obvious tactic is to send your teammates out to check out legs further round the course, and then lead their team leader (who could be somebody who can run fast in terrain, but not necessarily nav that well ) on them.

[Kitch]

absolutely its serious

the trouble with that is that if you stand by a control waving and shouting "Over here Thierry" everyone is going to see you.
And I'm not sure there are any people who can run terrain faster than the best orienteers - certainly those from other running diciplines can't.

[Gross]

There was that time in Germany in '95 when a top Kenyan 10k runner tried to follow Petter T through the terrain & round a course.... he didn't last long & the terrain was smooth beech leeves:)

[Snail]

And I'm not sure there are any people who can run terrain faster than the best orienteers

From time to time I think there are competent - but not great - orienteers who can run terrain faster than the best orienteers. You might expect there to also be a few cross country / fell runners.

An example from the past was the late Nick Bateson, who was once pulled through to I think 3rd place on one day of the JK (94?) by virtue of having a start time close to an elite orienteer. He could possibly have run it faster than the winning time if he had been paced through say each 25% of the course by four elite orienteers running just that stretch.

It is an interesting concept. With say 4 supporters, a couple could immediately head for the second part of the course, and recce possible alternative routes, returning to meet their team leader at agreed controls. The others could either work as a pair or similarly split the first half. For the team as a whole it would still be orienteering, but the team leader should surely be just the fastest runner?

[DavidJ]

It is an interesting concept. With say 4 supporters, a couple could immediately head for the second part of the course, and recce possible alternative routes, returning to meet their team leader at agreed controls. The others could either work as a pair or similarly split the first half. For the team as a whole it would still be orienteering, but the team leader should surely be just the fastest runner?

Or just the fastest SI Card Surely there is nothing to stop the SI Card being passed around the group (much like a relay). The ones who have gently recced the latter part of the course could take the SI Card over and sprint off on their planned routes.
David

[IanD]

Surely if this new format were a serious suggestion, the people proposing it would have tried it out at a few events in their own region first? A new idea should be prototyped first, you don't start at World level. So where are the reports from the experiments?