RouteGadget and copyright

[Paul Frost]

I have been approached by someone that wants to use video capture to record routes from RouteGadget to use in a DVD. They raised the question about permissions and it got me thinking.

My view, is that by putting up a route people are offering it for public consumption. If I wasn't happy for people to see the mess I made of no.7 and the 20mins I spent running around like a headless chicken when I couldn't find no.2, then I wouldn't put it on RouteGadget in the first place.

I know that coaches use examples of good and bad route choices in coaching sessions already, so is this any different?

Does anyone object to the possibility that their routes may be used in a DVD or for a coaching session?

I suppose that in this day and age I should put a health warning on the RouteGadget UK website:

Any routes posted on this site may be used in evidence against you claiming to be an experienced orienteer

[andy]

surely by submitting their route it becomes property of the webiste?

Do I have any say in what can and can't be done with any of my posts on nopesport, they are very much publically available after all. Similar thing with RG.

[geomorph]

Its all public domain - I certainly enjoy trying to coach myself from routegadget

BUT Its been said before by my betters... its all about the execution.
I can armchair, but can I execute?

If actual routes containing errors are to be effectively used for coaching, then those of us who make them should use the comment section to explain why they thought they went wrong (should have checked the compass - not guessed, etc).

Secondly coaching from this does rely on the honest record, and how you determine this from dishonesty or prank....

[Simon]

Note that I am not a legal person and the following is just my comments. If you want definitive legal advice on this matter then you would have to consult with someone with the relevant training.

My understanding is the following:
* I hold the copyright for any data I put onto the site
* By putting the data onto the site I give an implied license that that data may be displayed to myself and others using the service for the purpose of the service

Since Routegadget (nor Nopesport) does not seem to have a Terms of Use(/Service) there is no further granting of rights that can be taken as agreement by an individual using the service. It is also why only an implied license is given over the displaying of the data rather than the agreed license that a formal ToU would give.

What can then be done with the data I have put on the site beyond the standard use of the service then depends on copyright rules. The act of coaches showing good and bad route choices would likely fall under the education provisions included in UK copyright law. Note at this stage that, dependent on where the server is hosted and location of a person while they are posting data to the site, that other countries copyright laws may also be relevant.

The use in a DVD would likely be not allowed - unless the relevant rights are given by each of the copyright owners (the people who drew the routes being used, the mapper(s), course planner(s), and OS). Such rights would need to be got explicitly from each copyright right owner.

[Paul Frost]

So, should I add a terms of service that says for example:

By posting routes on RouteGadget UK you agree that they can be used by any third party for the purposes of education, training or coaching. Any commercial use is forbidden unless permission is given by the individual competitors, planners, mappers and club.
Maps that contain data sourced from the Ordnance Survey may also require a licence from the Ordnance Survey.

Anyone with a legal eye suggest any different wording?

[greywolf]

paul, i can't give a legal opinion but that seems reasonable. as ever it appears the money-grabbing &*+@~#>& from the OS will be the ones to stymie innovative uses of routegadget...

actually i think the whole idea of having "copyright" over a line i might draw on RG is somewhat absurd. What exactly is the Intellectual Property that i would be protecting? clearly it can't be the actual route(s) between controls, merely the on-screen representation of that route, so would I be copyrighting the veracity of that line's representation of my actual route, or the aesthetic qualities of the line itself - and given that the former is fairly meaningless without the splits, which presumably are IP of someone else (the organising club? SI/EMIT? BOF?) and the latter somewhat sketchy when the colour of the line is assigned by RG, neither seem all that justifiable...

oh my head hurts now i'm going to have to lie in the sun. Dick the Butcher (Henry VI pt 2) had the right idea...

[redkite]

use a bit of common sense.

Can you honestly imagine anyone who has put his route up on an rg site and therefore in public domain, taking action against someone for using the route for a training cd!!

I could get into more legal arguments but do not think they are needed.