Eyesight and Map Scales

[greywolf]

a failing with many maps is that they contain too much irrelevant detail and have not been generalised sufficiently well making them difficult to read

absolutely

distrated, adaml - what "ruling"? - the rule Gnitworp quoted applies to IOF world ranking events, world cups, world champs etc. BOF mapping rules state that for (current) Level 1 & 2 events the map should be at 1:15 but can be 1:10 where the area is "of exceptional detail". If 1:15 is used, then if planner & controller agree, M/W45+ and M/W14- can have a 1:10 - but it's not automatic.
For Level 3, 4 & 5 - i.e. Regional, District & Local = future "Standard" and "Local", it says simply: "the map should normally be at...1.15 or 1.10" - there's no mention at all about old folk getting bigger maps - presumably it's entirely down to the planner/controller who gets what scale

so here's a (provocative) suggestion: unless an area is being mapped for use in a WRE, there's no real need for it to be mapped at 1:15 at all, because if it's "of exceptional detail" it can be 1:10 even for BOC / JK - and if it's not of exceptional detail, is it really suitable for these top level competitions??

[NeilC]

BOF mapping rules state that for (current) Level 1 & 2 events the map should be at 1:15 but can be 1:10 where the area is "of exceptional detail". If 1:15 is used, then if planner & controller agree, M/W45+ and M/W14- can have a 1:10

M/W16- actually, not M/W14-. Although some clubs often ignore this recommendation and decide that M/W16 runners ought to have a 1:15,000 map.

[Gross]

I suggest that the optimum map scale probably depends on course length.

This has to be a joke:) Does anyone take this suggestion seriously? Is it April 1st?

[Gross]

a failing with many maps is that they contain too much irrelevant detail and have not been generalised sufficiently well making them difficult to read

Coz most mappers are crap - throughout the world. Mostly they don't know what information to leave on a map or to leave out. Either they just can't map properly coz they can't orienteer properly or they don't get paid enough to do do a proper map or they are mapping non-technical areas & are looking to fill an A4 sheet with stuff to justify thier payment / time investment:)

[EddieH]

If I were a mapper I'd be insulted even by someone who writes as much deliberately provocative stuff as Gross.

We have a FANTASTIC sport which has improved out of sight since I started largely because the maps all over the World are normally amazing. Sadly when discussing these things we get hung up on the things that could be improved, but lets not forget the mappers are the key people and I am utterly grateful to them for what they do. Snipers on the sideline only stand to put them off doing their work.

[greywolf]

M/W16- actually, not M/W14-.

Neil, that's what I thought till I read the rules, which say (Rules Appendix H 1.4.2) that for Level 1 & 2 Events "If the Planner and Controller are in agreement then a 1:15,000 map may be enlarged to 1:10,000 for use by classes M/W45 and above and M/W14 and below". So M/W16 should not get an enlarged map, even if planner & controller agree that oldies and youngsters can.

[redpossum]

As a mapper myself, I have to agree with Gross but would use slightly less provocative language. Mappers are very important to our sport otherwise we would still be running on OS 1:25000 photocopies looking for the stream junction or a crag (that would solve the scale problems!). The problem is a lot of them don't know what should be on a map and think that every little thing, no matter how small, should be shown.

The difficulty is how to break out of the loop. People have run on good professional maps in the past but complained that they didn't have the detail which they were used to on poorer maps. Now the Swedes and Norwegians, who had the balance right in the past, are falling into the same trap. If you don't believe me look at the presentation on map generalisation at http://lazarus.elte.hu/mc/12icom/12icom.htm

I am not sniping at my fellow mappers as I appreciate being able to run each week on, mainly, good maps but I am trying to get away from the bigger is better attitude. Generalisation is better - let's get rid of distinctive trees (20 in a cluster is NOT distinctive) and the 6 inch high boulders and 3 inch deep pits and make orienteering a proper sport and not a treasure hunt.

[NeilC]

M/W16- actually, not M/W14-.

Neil, that's what I thought till I read the rules, which say (Rules Appendix H 1.4.2) that for Level 1 & 2 Events "If the Planner and Controller are in agreement then a 1:15,000 map may be enlarged to 1:10,000 for use by classes M/W45 and above and M/W14 and below". So M/W16 should not get an enlarged map, even if planner & controller agree that oldies and youngsters can.

Well spotted. The event guidelines (for BOC/JK/National Events) all say M/W16 and below however so there is contradiction here. Something to get corrected for the next release.

[Ed]

so here's a (provocative) suggestion: unless an area is being mapped for use in a WRE, there's no real need for it to be mapped at 1:15 at all, because if it's "of exceptional detail" it can be 1:10 even for BOC / JK - and if it's not of exceptional detail, is it really suitable for these top level competitions??

All maps (well, maybe apart from sprint maps!) should be mapped at 1:15,000 (or rather mapped for 1:15,000 which usually means working at 1:7,500 in the field) - and therefore be legible for someone with normal eyesight when printed at 1:15,000. The ruling is for what scale the map should be printed at.

[SJC]

Neil, that's what I thought till I read the rules, which say (Rules Appendix H 1.4.2) that for Level 1 & 2 Events "If the Planner and Controller are in agreement then a 1:15,000 map may be enlarged to 1:10,000 for use by classes M/W45 and above and M/W14 and below". So M/W16 should not get an enlarged map, even if planner & controller agree that oldies and youngsters can.

From the IOF mapping specifications : The scale 1:10 000 is recommended for older age groups (age classes 45 and above) where reading fine lines and small symbols may cause problems or for (age classes 16 and below) where the capacity of reading complex maps is not fully developed.

Based on the IOF then, the event guidelines look to be correct and the BOF Appendix is wrong.