Novice courses at Regional events

[Paulo]

What are the point of these courses? Or more specifically, what advantage would an adult novice gain by running an M/W21N course, as opposed to a colour coded course on the same day?

A novice runner has asked me whether they should run the 21N course at a Regional event next week or a colour-coded. As far as I can tell, the 21N courses are TD3 standard, Men's about Red length, Women's is around Orange. But most regional events seem to offer colour coded of yellow, orange,light green and red. (certainly the ones I am looking at do).

The only difference seems to be:
- to enter the 21N course at the event next week you would have to pay £10 (age class entry fee), against £5 for the colour coded (OK, would have been £8 if had pre-entered, but how many Novices would pre-enter?)

- on the 21N course you will most likely have maybe 1 or 2 other competitors to run against (if you're lukcy). At least on the colour coded there might be some competition.

I can see the idea of Novice courses might be good in principle, but where there is a colour-coded EOD alternative I'm struggling to think of any reason to suggest running Novice rather than an orange/red/light green course.

[Carnage Head]

I agree, Paulo.

Perhaps the reason for W/M21N is to attract 'serious' runners, who might think that 'colour-coded' anything indicates some kind of childishness. Or perhaps the W/M21N results are being collated for some kind of ranking, in order to give some kind of feedback for those new to the sport... Neither of these reasons can surely be true, and if so, they don't hold water.

Perhaps organisers of regional/national events could emphasise that colour-coded courses are a well-regarded alternative to the main classes, and therefore attract novices this way. The currently commonly-used line "colour coded courses are also available" [my italics] could indicate a kind of secondary status for such courses.

Overall, the W/M21N classification may have been a well-intentioned innovation, but in practice, the races suffer from having only a small handful of competitors in them.

Possible solution: at reg/nat events, classify red courses as 'red/M21N'?

[Stodgetta]

I think it's a good idea if it makes people feel more "included" in an event, rather than having a different start/finish/manual punching for example like they did at November Classic. Often there will be different arrangements for colour coded runners.

I don't see why it should appear to be restricted to 21s though. Why not have a womens open novice and a mens open novice to encourage others to do it, too.

[gross2006]

I don't see why it should appear to be restricted to 21s though. Why not have a womens open novice and a mens open novice to encourage others to do it, too.

If it says 21 then that is same thing as 'open'. It's not restricted, anyone can enter. 21 is the open class - always has been, guess it always will be

[Stodgetta]

Thats why I said

appear to be restricted

You know and I know it is open, but people new to age class events may see M21N and think it's for 21's only.

[HOCOLITE]

Good Point Stogetta, if we are in the game of bringing new members in we want them to see clearly that they can run that course as a novice, it might be good to have the relevant colour with it as they may be moving up from colour coded and understand the technical difficulty.

[pmats]

I think the novice courses are a good idea. I would much rather enter a recognised course at an event like this and have a classified result against people of similar ability. The red course is usually the hardest colour coded course at these events and for those who turn up on the day and cannot get on the course they want to, are likely to run the red although their ability far exceeds TD3. They subsequently go around and kick everyones butt.
Not that it is necessarily about winning but about being competative with your ability. Also the thought that some M12 has just run the same course as you and beaten you by 10 mins can be demoralising. Fair enouth it happens at colour coded events, but that is the nature of the event. Having the novice course pitches you against people of similar ability. If you are good at orienteering, like obviously Paulo you are, this is of no significance because you can race with the best and make it back before you start work on monday morning.
I agree with Stogetta on the 'feeling part of the event' as well. Why sell the big events as having such a great atmosphere - great for all to be involved, when you have novices turn up and you have to say to them "we don't actually have a specific class for you, but there is a red you can do, it's great and you can save yourself a fiver!"
Yes, you only get a few entries on these courses, but they are a stepping stone to the bigger better courses. Perhaps numbers would increase if they were developed/advertised as mentioned above - for all to run.
I say keep the novice courses but keep age classes off the results. I don't want to know 'little Jimmy' kicked my ass by 10 mins - again!

pmats

[Paulo]

I agree in parts - certainly don't think the idea is a bad one in principle. I think the biggest problem in practice is that at the moment hardly anyone runs them - is it more demoralising to finish a course as a novice and be beaten by a bunch of 12-year-olds or to be the only finisher on the course at all? If novice courses did have bigger numbers then I'm sure they would be a more attractive proposition. Agree that rebranding as "Men's/Women's novice" course would probably help encourage participation.

Aren't all colour coded courses currently offered at Regional events theoretically designed for novices anyway? They're certainly not designed for experienced orienteers who would normally run age class courses, as they never seem to go up to TD5 (green) standard, therefore I would assume they are generally intended for beginners. Maybe colour courses at regional events should be done away with and replaced with courses titled "Novice" (maybe split men's women's, maybe Novice short and Novice long etc).

Having said that, the advantage of having colour courses, rather than a generic 'Novice' class, is that the colour courses generally cater for increasing TD, so that beginners can choose the appropriate level - ie the usual courses are White (TD1), Yellow (TD2), Orange (TD3) and Light Green (TD4), often with a Red thrown in there too for beginners who fancy a longer run. Having a sliding scale of courses like this I would have thought is more helpful for beginners (and is also comparable to 'normal' colour-coded events that they have quite probably already done).

I also think price often does matter to newcomers, and think that Novice classes should cost the same as colour-coded ones (ie £5 rather than £10), and there should always be EOD available.

I certainly agree that it doesn't help the image of the sport to newcomers when colour-coded courses at regional events do appear to be a 2nd rate alternative - eg yesterday's event where they had a separate start/finish, hand-drawn courses and pin punching (said person was quite disappointed not to have split times afterwards like everyone else). Not that I'm criticising yesterday's organisers (I wouldn't dare...)

[Rookie]

There shoudn't actually be a need for colour coded at regional events anymore - just have a mens/womens begginner course - certainly not both cc and M/W21N.

The introduction of ageless junior classes - if I remember correcly rom a few years back when it was trialled in the North West - was meant to mean that all juniors ran badge classes (eg. EOD always available) and cc just catered for adult beginners but M/W21N just adds more adult begginners courses. That was why regional cc classes only went up to light green since after that short age classes should be OK.

[Tatty]

At some events it is not possible to have entry on the day however. At the Classic we have a number limit, 1200, set by the forestry Commission. We were very near it this year and in other year have actaully accepted more entries than this and hoped that some people wouldn't turn up!! Luckily thay have always complied.