JK Final Details

[timsmith]

...Interesting comments about the map colours. The map colour chart for Wharncliffe and Middleton was the same and the printing was by the same printer on the same waterproof paper. I cannot comment on whether the planning software used caused issues with the overprint.

I don't know enough about the technical side of printing to understand what might make a difference. May be worth finding out and sharing what the planners used? Different software? Different settings in the same software? Generating pdfs and printing from those? Using a pdf as a background to the software rather than an ocd/oom map directly? Etc

I definitely found the course overprint harder to read for the Relays than the individual days. Reviewing the map, I think there is less pink in the overprint colour on the relay days, and the lines are thinner. I did find it hard to spot control 1 and 2.

I didn't spot the mountain bike track symbol when I first crossed it (wrote it off as an elephant track), although I picked it up later on. I think it blended into an index contour, and also in a relay I expected a bit of a scramble of purple lines on the map.

Two other minor mapping points

• I was not a fan of the blue/grey background on the paper. To my eyes it created an illusion of washed-out green colours on the map. I would prefer a white or paler background.
• I found it hard to see the North lines in the steep section of Wharncliffe, due the contour lines and undergrowth screen also running north-south. Not sure how to resolve but perhaps thicker north lines. Great map detail otherwise though.

[Scott]

I don't know enough about the technical side of printing to understand what might make a difference. May be worth finding out and sharing what the planners used? Different software? Different settings in the same software? Generating pdfs and printing from those? Using a pdf as a background to the software rather than an ocd/oom map directly? Etc

It is, I think, getting quite tricky now to print maps in accordance with the spec - that is, with the two different overprint purples properly interleaved among the other colours. To add to the fun, which symbols should be in "upper purple" differs between ISOM and ISSprOM (albeit that most course planning symbols are in "lower purple").

purples.png (129.23 KiB) Viewed 10563 times

• It's been a very long time since I tried to plan a course in Ocad, but for the amount it costs I would really hope it's capable of getting the colours in the right order for you.
• Condes definitely can get the colours in the right order, albeit the last time I tried it needed a bit of manual fiddling with the settings to get it to work.
• I'm pretty sure Purple Pen can't do this at all, and you have to export the courses to Ocad and then mess around with the colour table manually if you want to get it right.

Then the planner needs to be using the definition of purple that has been agreed with the printer, and not whatever happens to be the default purple for their preferred planning software, which in most cases will trump the definition in the colour table in the maps files unless you tell the software otherwise. The planner also needs to figure out how to turn off "transparent purple" or "overprint effect".

It's not really reasonable to expect individual day planners (or controllers) to be on top of this level of technical detail and the best bet for big events is probably to try to find some sort of map coordinator to keep an eye on it.

[pete.owens]

I have never worked out how to layer the overprint with Condes.

With purple pen you can select which layer to insert the overprint - but it is the same for all the symbols. You can force the numbers to the top layer by specifying a very narrow white outline, but not other symbols that should be on top. Also, it can pick up the purple colour from the map - which at least makes it consistent with any purple things in the map file.

I'm not sure why ISOM users lower purple for the numbers while ISSprOM uses upper purple. It makes the numbers unreadable where there is a lot of contour and rock detail.

[Scott]

Ah, apologies - it looks like I've done Purple Pen a disservice. Apparently the "purple layering" was a new feature released in March this year. I'll have to have a play with it.

The Condes instructions are right at the bottom of this page.

As a map user, I find that getting the layering right makes a huge difference on sprint maps in particular - it makes the purple stand out much more than when it's done as a transparent layer blended with large areas of underlying building grey and olive green.

I haven't personally noticed the brown-on-green layering issue that Finn highlights at the top of that Condes help page, but I wonder whether that comes down to the colour settings on the printer.

[awk]

Interesting comments about the map colours. The map colour chart for Wharncliffe and Middleton was the same and the printing was by the same printer on the same waterproof paper. I cannot comment on whether the planning software used caused issues with the overprint.

As I said, I didn't run at Wharnecliff, but there was a definite difference between Tankersley and Middleton, with the former distinctly more readable. The purple was brighter and the lines and numbers thicker.

[Arnold]

I use OCAD to plan but have never bothered to look into the colour situation. Instead, I send my finished files to the wonderful Jack at BML and say "please Jack can you do your magic with layout and printing". Which he always does, thanks Jack.

Haven't had any complaints yet but then I haven't planned a Level A event for some time.

The serious point here is that we have 100s of planners but only a handful of printers, so it would seem to make more sense to me that printers are the experts, not planners.

[pete.owens]

I haven't personally noticed the brown-on-green layering issue that Finn highlights at the top of that Condes help page, but I wonder whether that comes down to the colour settings on the printer.

I have come across it - but reached the opposite conclusion - The darkening produced by the overprint effect reduces contrast so makes contours (and course overprint and marshes) difficult to see in green areas. IMO the overprint effect was just an unfortunate side effect of offset printing. Trying to emulate it for digital printing was the wrong approach and layering is an improvement - though I still think the numbers need to be on the top layer.

[pete.owens]

So, back to the main subject.

I am one who likes to have things printed on a bit of paper, and I think I still would be even if I owned a smartphone. But, I don't want the whole website, just the essential details for me on the day. So I tend to print the details for the day - and highlight the bits that apply to me - then write on specific things such as my start time. This still results on more printing than I need - with things such as catering and course details for the 15 courses that I'm not running.

I think there was a S6D (or other big event) that had a section of the event page "If you don't read anything else the just read this bit". What would be really useful would be to extend this bit to generate a personalised details page - lookup your entry and include your course, your start time, which start to go, how far it is... etc.

[buzz]

So, back to the main subject.

I am one who likes to have things printed on a bit of paper, and I think I still would be even if I owned a smartphone. But, I don't want the whole website, just the essential details for me on the day. So I tend to print the details for the day - and highlight the bits that apply to me - then write on specific things such as my start time. This still results on more printing than I need - with things such as catering and course details for the 15 courses that I'm not running.

I think there was a S6D (or other big event) that had a section of the event page "If you don't read anything else the just read this bit". What would be really useful would be to extend this bit to generate a personalised details page - lookup your entry and include your course, your start time, which start to go, how far it is... etc.

All sounds good to me - and even though I use a smartphone I still create a small page of relevant information that I share with the family via whatsapp so they don't need to wade through the final details to find the important bits.

An editable 1 page document (Word?) of the important bits would be excellent so you could add your start times etc and delete other course details etc. Then either print or share digitally.

For me the important bits are (maybe others)....

Location of parking (google maps link)
Distance to assembly
Distance and climb to start(s)

Clothing and kit requirement (e.g. whistles, cagoules)
Non standard mapping symbols
Event specific safety issues

Course details / Map scales
Online Results link

Start times, bib numbers, start names (add your own from entry system)