The problem is that it shouldn't have been a level C event.
In my view any sprints / other extras at the scottish should be strictly for fun therefore swaps don't matter and neither would the start intervals.
I remember a sprint race round Inverness at the 1999 Scottish which I think was self service - start anytime all day sort of thing. I also seem to remember I ran it a second time to see if I could improve.
One of the most fun events I did this year was the post JK at Great Tower. Picked up map at registration, free self service start. Don't think fairness or challenge were negatively impacted.
S6D start times
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Re: S6D start times
Arnold wrote:The problem is that it shouldn't have been a level C event.
In my view any sprints / other extras at the scottish should be strictly for fun therefore swaps don't matter and neither would the start intervals.
The problem with Forres is that somebody decided it would be a great idea to include it in Scottish Urban League, so by nature it was going to be comptitive.
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Re: S6D start times
Some interesting comments about the level of the Forres sprint.
For the sake of clarity...
The Forres race was not included in the SOUL series initially for 2015, essentially becase the point of the SOUL series was to attract more people to urban events and clearly this not required for the S6D.
I included it at some point during 2014 when
A - I was asked to plan it as noone else would.
B - We had some concerns that we wouldnt have enough races in 2015 for the SOUL series to go ahead.
I have not been made aware of any guidance regarding the level or classes for the "rest day sprint" at S6D. Maybe there should be some.
At some point in 2014 someone (I think the BOF fixtures secretary but could be wrong ) re-registered both Nairn and Forres sprint events at level B. This was spotted and the orgnaiser for Nairn asked for their event to be put back to Level D and the team for Forres had a discussion and agreed that Level C was the appropriate level for the Forres race. We took various things into account although I dont think the fact it was a holiday event was one of them.
The Forres sprint race has a 2 hour window because of the need to allow people to get to Darnaway for WOC spectating. We also had to take into account safety issues as we do not have any street closures for the day of the race and numbers of runners will be considerably higher than normal for an urban sprint race on open streets. I can understand why it would be considered a pretty serious issue to run under someone elses name.
I take it you disagre with that decision which is fine, but it was a decision made in the best of intentions. I'm not sure it would ever be uncompetitive.
As planner I havent been involved with the issues around how the waiting list would work although it seemed like a good idea. I can though confirm that all 3 of us directly involved in the race have been working pretty damn hard to bring it to you, with the support of a number of other volunteers in the background. Please remember we are having to work with pretty limited help on the day due to the demands of WOC which (apart from the full courses) is the main reason why there is no EOD.
OK Arnold - Now wander back into the real world with 1000+ punters (or possibly 5000 since presmably your not an advocate of pre-entry) all shipping up to get a run round a busy small town centre in time for a look at the World champs in the afternoon. And bear in mind we've got next to noone to help us at registration and download...
For the sake of clarity...
The Forres race was not included in the SOUL series initially for 2015, essentially becase the point of the SOUL series was to attract more people to urban events and clearly this not required for the S6D.
I included it at some point during 2014 when
A - I was asked to plan it as noone else would.
B - We had some concerns that we wouldnt have enough races in 2015 for the SOUL series to go ahead.
I have not been made aware of any guidance regarding the level or classes for the "rest day sprint" at S6D. Maybe there should be some.
At some point in 2014 someone (I think the BOF fixtures secretary but could be wrong ) re-registered both Nairn and Forres sprint events at level B. This was spotted and the orgnaiser for Nairn asked for their event to be put back to Level D and the team for Forres had a discussion and agreed that Level C was the appropriate level for the Forres race. We took various things into account although I dont think the fact it was a holiday event was one of them.
The Forres sprint race has a 2 hour window because of the need to allow people to get to Darnaway for WOC spectating. We also had to take into account safety issues as we do not have any street closures for the day of the race and numbers of runners will be considerably higher than normal for an urban sprint race on open streets. I can understand why it would be considered a pretty serious issue to run under someone elses name.
andy wrote:The problem with Forres is that somebody decided it would be a great idea to include it in Scottish Urban League, so by nature it was going to be comptitive.
I take it you disagre with that decision which is fine, but it was a decision made in the best of intentions. I'm not sure it would ever be uncompetitive.
As planner I havent been involved with the issues around how the waiting list would work although it seemed like a good idea. I can though confirm that all 3 of us directly involved in the race have been working pretty damn hard to bring it to you, with the support of a number of other volunteers in the background. Please remember we are having to work with pretty limited help on the day due to the demands of WOC which (apart from the full courses) is the main reason why there is no EOD.
Arnold wrote:I remember a sprint race round Inverness at the 1999 Scottish which I think was self service - start anytime all day sort of thing. I also seem to remember I ran it a second time to see if I could improve.
One of the most fun events I did this year was the post JK at Great Tower. Picked up map at registration, free self service start. Don't think fairness or challenge were negatively impacted.
OK Arnold - Now wander back into the real world with 1000+ punters (or possibly 5000 since presmably your not an advocate of pre-entry) all shipping up to get a run round a busy small town centre in time for a look at the World champs in the afternoon. And bear in mind we've got next to noone to help us at registration and download...
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Re: S6D start times
andypat wrote:andy wrote:The problem with Forres is that somebody decided it would be a great idea to include it in Scottish Urban League, so by nature it was going to be comptitive.
I take it you disagre with that decision which is fine, but it was a decision made in the best of intentions. I'm not sure it would ever be uncompetitive.
No, I agree with the decision, my comment was aimed at the fact that the 'level c' attribute seems to be what's causing the issue with flexibility on start times.
I'm gutted I had to cancel my entry due to WOC helper commitments as I think this will be the best public race of the week.
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Re: S6D start times
I'm fairly certain there were ranking points from the Lossiemouth rest day sprint 2 years ago.
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Re: S6D start times
King Penguin wrote:I'm fairly certain there were ranking points from the Lossiemouth rest day sprint 2 years ago.
The Lossiemouth rest day sprint was level C, with ranking points, and attracted quite a strong field: https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/ ... eday=57372
When the Men's Open (Course 1) was full, additional runners were directed towards Course 3 - there seems to be plenty of unused start slots on some of the Forres courses.
If the reason for no EOD etc is lack of available helpers - and given the demands of WOC this isn't surprising - then it doesn't really matter what level the event is registered at, and IIRC BOF's insurance requires an accurate list of competitor names so would prohibit DIY entry swapping.
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Re: S6D start times
S6D rest events have changed a bit since 1977, except the competitive element.
One unofficial 1977 rest day event, consisted of a mass start event at Roseisle, including some drink controls (can of beer at each) for the lads and 3k for the lasses. Won if I recall in M21E/W21E competitive times and nearly a dead heat between the two courses. The last control was quite colourful from what I recall.
One unofficial 1977 rest day event, consisted of a mass start event at Roseisle, including some drink controls (can of beer at each) for the lads and 3k for the lasses. Won if I recall in M21E/W21E competitive times and nearly a dead heat between the two courses. The last control was quite colourful from what I recall.
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Re: S6D start times
[quote="greywolf"
If the reason for no EOD etc is lack of available helpers - and given the demands of WOC this isn't surprising - then it doesn't really matter what level the event is registered at, and IIRC BOF's insurance requires an accurate list of competitor names so would prohibit DIY entry swapping.[/quote]
Yes. The volunteer in charge of our IT and entries who I understand will be pretty much single handed on the day also has a wider role within the s6d and simply does not have the capacity to manage changes at this late stage. This is also partly why there is no EOD but to be honest it would be misleading to offer EOD when we are pretty much full.
As suggested by greywolf it's clearly against the rules and our insurance conditions to allow people to run under someone else's name apart from this compromising the integrity of the ukul and SOUL series. Please do not attempt to do this.
If the reason for no EOD etc is lack of available helpers - and given the demands of WOC this isn't surprising - then it doesn't really matter what level the event is registered at, and IIRC BOF's insurance requires an accurate list of competitor names so would prohibit DIY entry swapping.[/quote]
Yes. The volunteer in charge of our IT and entries who I understand will be pretty much single handed on the day also has a wider role within the s6d and simply does not have the capacity to manage changes at this late stage. This is also partly why there is no EOD but to be honest it would be misleading to offer EOD when we are pretty much full.
As suggested by greywolf it's clearly against the rules and our insurance conditions to allow people to run under someone else's name apart from this compromising the integrity of the ukul and SOUL series. Please do not attempt to do this.
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